Wikipedia:Peer review/John Degnan/archive1

John Degnan

• A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for June 2008.

This peer review discussion has been closed.
This biography is certainly a work in progress. I wrote the original biography, and there have been some concerns expressed about its neutrality. Mainly I've been trying to balance between some IPs inserting extreme views from both sides, and I've recently been joined by another editor who is here watch over this article and has made a committment to learning the ropes of WP after a few initial snafus. We have been going back and forth on a subpage of the talk page on a few key points. The other editor believes less is more, and clearly would like to focus on certain points. I have attempted to balance this, but would like to make sure that it has not gone too far. The civil discussion has led to a suggestion that we solicit a peer review. Thanks. MrPrada (talk) 02:09, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Some of the key points raised thus far:

• WP:LEAD. Should the lead consist of a summary of the article, or omit mention of immigration and the candidacy for Southeast town supervisor?
• Should the primary infobox list him as a Republican or a Democrat? He is a registered Republican, but ran as a Democrat for Southeast Supervisor and a Democrat-Republican for Brewster Mayor due to New York's electoral fusion laws.
• Should the first sentence mention he is a real estate contractor, even though it is no longer clear if he still does this?
• Should the fact that he voted to increase his salary, which has been made a campaign issue by his current opponent, be included in the article?
• Should the Brewster Master plan include a photo of the laborer employment center, which is the source of most of the press about Degnan, and the master plan?
• Should the article mention Degnan's interview with Governing magazine?
• Should the article include the quote, Degnan was "enthusiastic" about playing an "integral role" in securing the site?
• Should the article mention a July 2007 "Stop the workstation rally" following a June 2006 State of the village address which announced a new plan for the workstation?
• Should the 2007 campaign for Southeast section include the fundraising figures?
• Should the 2008 campaign section mention the Working Families Party supports issuing drivers licenses to all immigrants, and requiring business to accept IDs issued by foreign consulates (the latter of which Degnan was involved with), or a more general summary of the party's platform?
• Should the photo of day laborers congregating on Brewster's Main Street be included to provide context for the day laborer hiring site?
• Any other general comments, and concerns?

Yannismarou

• Lead: Why omit this info? I think the lead, as I see it now, is concise and fine.
• "Education" is stubby. Can't you expand a bit? And nothing about his early life?
• "Degnan was a real estate contractor ... " The wording looks fine to me.
• "Should the fact that he voted to increase his salary, which has been made a campaign issue by his current opponent, be included in the article?" Yes, if you also add how he responds to the criticism, and if you make clear it is a campaign issue.
• "Should the Brewster Master plan include a photo of the laborer employment center, which is the source of most of the press about Degnan, and the master plan?" Why not? Which is the argument against?
• "Should the article mention Degnan's interview with Governing magazine?" Again why not, if the arguments of the altera pars are also presented.
• "Should the article include the quote, Degnan was "enthusiastic" about playing an "integral role" in securing the site?" Again, I do not see why not.
• "Should the article mention a July 2007 "Stop the workstation rally" following a June 2006 State of the village address which announced a new plan for the workstation?" Same answer!
• I just think you sometimes overdo it by overquoting Degnan! We don't have to know his exact words at any occasion!
• The quotes in the last paragraph of "Immigration issues" need citations.
• "*Should the 2007 campaign for Southeast section include the fundraising figures?" If the figures are accurate, why not?
• "Should the photo of day laborers congregating on Brewster's Main Street be included to provide context for the day laborer hiring site?" Not the best picture in the world, but I have not a problem with it being there. Attention: I don't know the US law, so I do not know if there is a problem with individuals being pictured in this photo (which is now published in public) without their permission.
• "Should the primary infobox list him as a Republican or a Democrat? He is a registered Republican, but ran as a Democrat for Southeast Supervisor and a Democrat-Republican for Brewster Mayor due to New York's electoral fusion laws." I really can't answer that! Where he says he belongs now?!
• "Should the 2008 campaign section mention the Working Families Party supports issuing drivers licenses to all immigrants, and requiring business to accept IDs issued by foreign consulates (the latter of which Degnan was involved with), or a more general summary of the party's platform?" The sentence is a bit tiring. Maybe trim it a bit focusing on the "the latter of which Degnan was involved with". But I do not know the subject, so I am not sure!--Yannismarou (talk) 15:02, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Hu02138

Thanks for the preliminary feedback. Here's a further explanation of the question's we're running into

• WP:LEAD. Should the lead consist of a summary of the article, or omit mention of immigration and the candidacy for Southeast town supervisor?
• Should the primary infobox list him as a Republican or a Democrat? He is a registered Republican, but ran as a Democrat for Southeast Supervisor and a Democrat-Republican for Brewster Mayor due to New York's electoral fusion laws.
  • I've offered a pretty extensive discussion on the NPOV dispute section of the talk page arguing that it should only display Republican, which is what Degnan is registered. In brief: If you look at other political profiles, notably, George Pataki, Mario Cuomo, and Michael Bloomberg, the only party listed is the party that the person is officially registered with, even though all of these individuals also received support from other political parties during their careers. New York has an electoral fusion system which allows parties to cross-endorse candidates. This has resulted in Degnan being endorsed by the Democratic, Conservative, and Independent parties during his career, even though he is in fact a Republican. Because on other political pages, only the person's current or former registered parties are what is given, it will confuse readers if we list Degnan as a democrat and republican. They will think he changed his party registration at some point, when in reality he did not.
• Should the first sentence mention he is a real estate contractor, even though it is no longer clear if he still does this?
  • The problem is that there is no source to substantiate that he is a real estate contractor. The only source that was provided for this was a blank webpage where whatever article was there has clearly been removed
• Should the fact that he voted to increase his salary, which has been made a campaign issue by his current opponent, be included in the article?
  • The source doesn't say he "voted to increase" his salary, it says he "adopted a budget which nearly doubled his salary." I think using the actual language of the source is more accurate.
• Should the Brewster Master plan include a photo of the laborer employment center, which is the source of most of the press about Degnan, and the master plan?
  • The issue here is one of space and redundancy. The master plan included a number of recommendations for the village, including establishing a commercial center, a civic center, and a day laborer employment center. The other picture that's presently there shows all three of these. The hiring center graphic therefore is redundant, plus it results a wide gap in the page since it doesn't fit within the text.
• Should the article mention Degnan's interview with Governing magazine?
  • The quote from this interview highlights Degnan's views on the day laborer problem, however, in doing so, it is redundant with the pull quote from his state of the village speech which also highlights that he favors a more "humane" community-oriented approach to the issue. Additionally, mentioning the approach taken by another city in the area to day laborers (arrest them) is unnecessary context, since Degnan's views have nothing to do with the approach taken by that other city.
• Should the article include the quote, Degnan was "enthusiastic" about playing an "integral role" in securing the site?
  • The trouble with this quote is that Degnan himself never stated that he was "enthusiastic" about playing an "integral role." Those two quoted phrases are what the reporter wrote. In placing them in quotes, it gives them excessive weight and confuses the reader into thinking that Degnan actually said he was personally enthusiastic, when he did not (at least he didn't according to the source). Further, this troublesome line is unnecessary since readers can already see that Degnan played an active role in the issue from the rest of the content in the article.
• Should the article mention a July 2007 "Stop the workstation rally" following a June 2006 State of the village address which announced a new plan for the workstation?
  • The rally should only be mentioned if it is also noted that no hiring center was planned at the time the rally was held, which is also noted in the source. I think the new language for this sentence addresses this.
• Should the 2007 campaign for Southeast section include the fundraising figures?
  • The trouble with inserting the fundraising figures is that they are a trivial detail and not really necessary.
• Should the 2008 campaign section mention the Working Families Party supports issuing drivers licenses to all immigrants, and requiring business to accept IDs issued by foreign consulates (the latter of which Degnan was involved with), or a more general summary of the party's platform?
  • I have also offered an extended discussion of this on the NPOV section of the talk page. In brief: Degnan has worked on many issues besides illegal immigration, and the WFP stands for many issues besides illegal immigration. Highlighting these two planks implies that Degnan received the WFP's support primarily because of his views on immigration. However, no source substantiates this. To include it is therefore to include speculation. I have argued that this difficulty can be avoided altogether by simply providing a general statement of what the party stands for, and have suggested that if other editors are really insistent on including the illegal immigration planks, that a more appropriate place to do so may be in the footnote section.
• Should the photo of day laborers congregating on Brewster's Main Street be included to provide context for the day laborer hiring site?
  • There is no way to verify that this picture is actually from Brewster or that it is truly representative of Brewster. I have therefore argued for its removal based on WP:V
• Any other general comments, and concerns?
  • ...Would be greatly welcomed.

Thanks Hu02138 (talk) 18:56, 26 June 2008 (UTC)