Wikipedia:Peer review/Kate Sheppard/archive1

Kate Sheppard

This article is on the leader of the women's suffrage movement in New Zealand, Kate Sheppard. She was the most prominent of many suffragettes, and due to their work, in 1893, New Zealand became the first self governing nation on earth to give women the right to vote. Along with Gadfium and Susan Tol I am trying to improve this article to Featured status in time for the 125th anniversary of women's suffrage later this year. We are hoping to nominate the article as a Featured Article candidate soon, so would really appreciate any feedback that could help us achieve success there.

Thanks, Shudde^talk 18:22, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

Comments from Ben MacDui

It is a long while since I troubled the FAC cabal but here are a few comments. Bear in mind that I know as much as most of them will about NZ history (i.e. next to nothing) but I am (almost) as willing as the next editor to annoy everyone with remarks about style, punctuation and grammar. I hope the following are helpful.

Perhaps I am biased but I thought the lead skimped a little on her Scottish heritage and the role it played in her life.

Links needed to:

• Te Kaunihera Wahine o Aotearoa
• Hebrides
• London University
• Dunedin
• Avon River (Canterbury)

‘prominent figures’ does not need the following comma. in 1885, - that comma again. See also Should Women Vote?,

Early life

“and was knowledgeable about local matters.” It’s not clear either why this is relevant or in what way it adds anything. You would not expect a Cllr to be less informed than the norm. Did he have a particular kind of knowledge?

Image – not sure why the date is relevant. If it is, ‘in 2007’ would be better than brackets.

Women’s Suffrage movement

It’s a long section. Might it be broken into two?

Image – I think MOS wants you to link Christchurch here.

“something not witnessed often in New Zealand” Might imply that’s still the case. Suggest adding ‘previously’

“Her interest in franchise was clear however.” I don’t know what this means. Is there something to link to?

kickerbockers looks like a typo

"Later that year, Sheppard was reappointed editor of The White Ribbon" You didn’t tell us she had stepped aside. Maybe she was reappointed for consecutive terms?

"In 1918, Sheppard and a group of other prominent suffragettes were able to revitalise the Council, and Sheppard was elected president that year before stepping down in 1919." This is a bit confusing in the timeline. Maybe place in brackets or move it further down?

“she continued to influence the New Zealand women's movement to a great extent”. A bit vague – example?

“As her son had died in 1910” This is a bit of an afterthought and suggest placing this before “In 1912–13, she travelled with Lovell-Smith’ and telling us how he died, if we know, and something about the impact on her. Perhaps we don’t know this either. You can still explain the 'no descendants' bit lower down.

1888 to 1902, now known as the Kate Sheppard House,

Ben MacDui 21:06, 2 February 2018 (UTC)

PS – Any idea which of the Hebrides?

I am working through your suggestions. Just a couple of points I can't easily reply to in edit summaries:

I agree the "Women's suffrage movement" is a long section, but I'm not sure how to break it up. Perhaps several subsections could be created within it.

Turbott is the source for Sheppard being editor of The White Ribbon right from the start (in May 1895). Devaliant says she was reappointed editor at the WCTU convention in April 1996 without having mentioned her becoming editor in the first place. I agree that it seems likely she was reappointed for consecutive terms. I think someone would have to find the minutes of the convention to be absolutely clear. Reading the issues of The White Ribbon would also confirm whether she was listed as editor in each issue, or someone else was listed at any point between those dates. I don't have access to either the minutes or the issues.

Thank you for your detailed review.-gadfium 08:28, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

Reaction to her son's death: Devaliant points out on page 1 that Sheppard left no personal diaries and few personal letters. Her siblings' descendents were not forthcoming on sharing information. Unless one of those descendants produces their own biography of Sheppard, or cooperates with a new biographer, it is unlikely we will know anything about her reaction to Douglas' death. Devaliant does not mention Douglas after his wedding.-gadfium 21:05, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Comments from Eddie891

• "was the most prominent member of New Zealand's women's suffrage movement and the country's most famous suffragette." perhaps change to "was a prominent member of New Zealand's women's suffrage movement and one of the the country's most famous suffragettes." I find it always dubious when saying someone is the most famous or prominent, as no-one ever agrees on who is the most famous in reality. It's like saying "George Washington(February 22, 1732 – December 14, 1799) was the most prominent American statesman and soldier who served as the first and most famous President of the United States from 1789 to 1797 and was the most prominent Founding Fathers of the United States."
• "She promoted suffrage by organising petitions and public meetings, by writing letters to the press, and by developing contacts with politicians. She was the editor of the White Ribbon, the first women-operated newspaper in New Zealand. Through her skillful writing and persuasive public speaking, she successfully advocated for women's suffrage." That's a lot of she's in close proximity.
• "one of New Zealand's most prominent figures and has appeared on the front of the New Zealand ten-dollar note since 1992" perhaps add a comma (i.e. "one of New Zealand's most prominent figures, and has appeared on the front of the New Zealand ten-dollar note since 1992."

More comments to come. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 18:58, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

• The thing is that Sheppard was the most famous suffragette; it's undisputed and you will find lots of credible sources that say so. Here's a collection:

• "Canterbury had an integral part to play in the Women's Suffrage campaign. Both the leader of the women's campaign for women's votes, Kate Sheppard, and the leader of the Parliamentary campaign, Sir John Hall, were Canterbury people. ... Kate Sheppard is our most famous suffragist, credited as the driving force in the campaign that saw New Zealand become the first country in the world to give women the vote." The Press in an article from 2015
• "Kate Sheppard was the leading light of the New Zealand women’s suffrage movement." NZ History website, published by the Ministry for Culture and Heritage
• "Kate Sheppard is recognised as the leader of the fight to win the right for New Zealand women to vote." published by Christchurch City Libraries

• Just saying. Schwede66 22:03, 12 February 2018 (UTC)