Wikipedia:Peer review/Lew Carpenter/archive1

Lew Carpenter

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This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because…

I worked on this article and had some one check it and he did a review on the talk page. I have made many corrections and fixes as requested. Now after a week or so of waiting for the person to re-review to remove the Cleanup-rewrite|article|date=November 2010 maintence tag, I need a good review to move forward to at least a B class rating.

And I am having the darnest time with the infobox. If anyone can help there, I would appreciate it. I must be missing something simple on it ...

Thanks, Jrcrin001 (talk) 02:31, 10 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Gbern3

Thank you for submitting this article for peer review. Some of these suggestions are formatting/editing comments and/or style suggestions based on Wikipedia policy, others are just my opinion. You can choose whether to implement any of them or not. It won't bother me either way. You are the main contributor to this article. In the end, I know you care about how it looks. This may sound rude but I mean this in the most cordial way so please don't take offense. After reading this article, it appears that you did not read it yourself in it's entirety before you submitted it for peer review. Before you possibly get offended, let me explain. In short, this article needs a lot of work... a lot before it can reach B-class. There are several policy violations. I have stated specific ones in the feedback below. The main issued is this article needs many more citations to verify what is written and to avoid several copyright issues that are currently present (i.e. uncited quotes). Second, the tone needs to be addressed. Some of it is not written like an encyclopedia. This is explained further in the comments below. Third issue is the grammar and formatting. For example, throughout the article you refer to Lew Carpenter as "Carpenter" but there are some times when you call him "Lew". Please use one or the other but not both. In biographical articles (with the exception of famous people with "stage" names), it is common for the last name to be used. Some sections are choppy. What I mean by this is that in those sections, you have more solo sentences with spaces in between them than full paragraphs. Please bring these sentences together so that those sections flow/read more smoothly. Other grammar suggestions are below. A small issue is with numbers WP:ORDINAL. Please read the policy for the numbers to get an understanding of what should be changed in the article. I purposely did not give examples below because the rules vary on when to use the actual number and when to spell it out. It depends on where the number occurs in a sentence, whether or not it's a date, number comparisons, etc. Lastly, if you can obtain them, more images would be nice. For all these reasons, I really think you should read WP:BLP policy for an overview of how biographical articles should be written. That's the overall view. More specific feedback is as follows:

Lead

The lead needs to be longer because the article is long so the length of the lead needs to reflect that WP:LEAD. However, according to Wikipedia policy, it should not be longer than four paragraphs.
From what I can tell, I don't see any problems with the infobox. It looks great to me. I know technically the infobox is separate from the lead but I put this comment here because I did not think it was necessary to make a separate section for one comment.

Early years and family

Please add a last name for Jeanne -->His brother, Preston Carpenter, married Jeanne and the couple had three sons: Scott, Bruce, and Lewis Todd; Jeanne who? By just referring to her by her first name you are introducing Jeanne to the reader in a casual way, like the reader should already know who she is. If Jeanne was a famous person or widely recognized and "Jeanne" was her stage name than it would be okay to refer to her in this way because the reader would already know who you were talking about. For example, if your sentence stated His brother, Preston Carpenter, married Beyonce... that would be okay because Beyonce is well know and this is the name that she officially goes by. Everyone would know who you were talking about. Beyonce is not a random girl. But Jeanne is a random girl. So it's important to be specific about which Jeanne it is i.e. Jeanne Smith, Jeanne Harrison, or Jeanne James, etc.
Some descendants' names have just the first name, others have both the first and the last name. Please consider using both first and last names for all of them or just first names for all of them. I doubt there's a Wiki policy for this but it looks cleaner if they're all uniform.
Carpenter was a descendant of Thomas "Jack" Carpenter (born 1740 Virgina and died 1803 in North Carolina) Nothing really wrong with this sentence. It just seems out of place because it comes after the sentence about Lew's grandchildren. It also seems really random considering that this is the last sentence in the section and Lew was born 103 years after the death of Jack. Why was Jack important? Did he build something important or invent something important?

College career

While at the University of Arkansas (1949–1953) he starred at the halfback position for the Razorbacks as senior halfback for the Blue-Grey College All-Star Game.[1][3] This sentence is a little jumbled. Suggestion: While at the University of Arkansas (1949–1953) he starred as senior halfback for the Blue-Grey College All-Star Game.[1][3]
Carpenter also played running back, wide receiver, tight end and he served as back-up quarterback during his college years. You have already established by the section title and the previous sentence that Lew is in college. Suggestion: Carpenter also served as a running back, wide receiver, tight end, and back-up quarterback.
"Carpenter" is stated a lot in this section. Consider changing some of the "Carpenter"s, at least one of them, to "He".
Carpenter played baseball after his 1953 senior year in college in the minor (then class B) Carolina League, as a pitcher, with the Winston-Salem Cardinals. Two things: (1) Do you have a source for this sentence, because this ref says that he played baseball during college, not after. (2) Minor grammar issue with the way you used commas with this sentence. Also, you already stated earlier in the section when his senior year of college was so you don't need to repeat the year. Suggestion: After graduating college, Carpenter played baseball in the minor (then class B) Carolina League as a pitcher with the Winston-Salem Cardinals.
During this season he had a batting average of .286 under manager Jimmy Brown.[6] Scouts for the NFL also offered him a contract and football beat baseball in this circumstance. Do you know the year, he was offered a contract? Suggestion: Scouts for the NFL offered him a contract in [YEAR] so he changed his professional sports focus from baseball to football.

NFL playing career

Carpenter's primary positions played: defensive half back, fullback, halfback, and offensive half back/running back. Technically, based on the way this is worded, I don't know if it's actually a sentence (grammatically speaking). Suggestion: Carpenter played these primary positions: defensive half back, fullback, halfback, and offensive half back/running back.
Carpenter was listed at a height of 6 foot 2 inches and had a playing weight from 205 to 220 pounds and was considered fast afoot. People's weight and abilities change. It would be good to add a year for these statistics, if known.
Your second paragraph has great information about the role of a halfback. My concern is that it might need to be sourced. Not what the responsibilities of a halfback are but a halfback being "a requirement for a team's success". I think this statement may be challenged because someone could argue that a quarterback is a requirement for a team's success. They have very nice contracts and if the team loses they are usually one of the people who speak at the press conference.
Many of these functions are described today as for the runningback postion, fit the 1950s & 1960s halfback. Suggestion: Many of the functions described today for the runningback position fit the description for the 1950s & 1960s halfback position. Also, do you have a source for this? Aside from your personal knowledge, how do you know this true?
Carpenter also played as a fullback, which is a position in the offensive backfield in American and Canadian football, and it is one of the two back field positions supporting the quarterback. I think this sentence would sound better if you took out "it is" and the comma after "football".

Detroit Lions

You have spaces in between each sentence. Please put them together to make one four sentence long paragraph.
In 1953, Carpenter was selected drafted by the National Football League for the Detroit Lions in the 8th round draft, 97th selection. This sentence needs a reference. On a side note, I think this sentence would sound better if you took out "selected".
Jersey # 34, Carpenter, Lewis (B) from Arkansas, played 1953–55.[12] Bullets are used for lists WP:BULLETLIST and since this section has one bullet, it looks odd on it's own especially since it's in between two sentences without being related to either. I think this section would look/read better if you changed this bullet into the opening sentence. Suggestion: While with the Detroit Lions, Carpenter's jersey number was 34. He was with the team for three seasons starting in 1953 until 1955. You've already told the reader Carpenter is from Arkansas so you don't need to repeat this.

Cleveland Browns

Please change the stand alone bullet into a sentence.
WP:NOR This section needs more citations to verify what is stated. There is also a copyright issue because there are two quotes without references.
It also needs to be rewritten slightly. There are no major grammatical errors. The problem is that it is written like sports commentary or a magazine article that's retelling the story of the Browns' great win instead of an encyclopedia article that is simply relaying information. The issue is WP:TONE.
Lew Carpenter and his brother Preston, both backs, supported Brown in his legendary time with the Cleveland Browns. The section makes no other mention of how Preston supported Brown. For this reason, I think Preston should be taken out of this sentence especially since there's not a reference about how Lew supported Brown. Side note: please change "back" to "running back". Just saying "backs" comes off as slang. If you really prefer to keep it that way then at least put it in italics so that the reader knows you're using football lingo on purpose because it's a football related article.
Lew went "sweeping his left end behind good blocking carrying for 12 yards." WP:AUDIENCE What does this mean? I think it would be better if you stated this in layman's terms instead of using a quote. This would probably be better since you currently don't have a reference for this quote... which makes it a copyright violation.

Green Bay Packers

Just so you're aware, the Vince Lombardi image you're using looks like it's about to be deleted. I do think you need more images in the article but I don't think you need that one. It doesn't seem that relevant to Carpenter. Maybe if I was more a Packers fan I would understand it's importance of being there but I think if you're going to use an image, it should have Carpenter in it or be a picture of his jersey. That image seems supplementary rather than complimentary.
WP:NOR This section also needs more citations (there are a lot so I will not list them all) and there are more quoted statements without references.
Here is another example of what I mean by WP:TONE with the use of an exclamation point. --> The crowd jumped to its feet, cheering at this new tactic!
Another example of WP:TONE --> During the rest of the game, the Bears watched Carpenter closely, seeing him as a threat. It's like your telling a story instead of writing an encyclopedia article. Think about the difference between reading a novel about how great blue screens are and reading a dictionary definition of what that is.
Please change the stand alone bullet in to a sentence. If the jersey number is unknown, it's best to leave the information out of the article than to use "??".
Another example of WP:TONE --> The Packers stormed back in the 1962 season, jumping out to a 10 win & 0 loss start, on their way to a 13 wins & 1 loss season. Stormed could also be seen as WP:PEACOCK because it's bias. It would be better to use "improved" or something to that effect, something less flashy than "stormed" that still conveys the message that they did better.
Really long sentence, please split this in two. --> This consistent level of success would lead to Lombardi's Packers becoming one of the most prominent teams of their era, and even to their being featured as the face of the NFL on the cover of Time on December 21, 1962, as part of the magazine's cover story on "The Sport of the '60s" and Lew Carpenter is mentioned in the article as one of the Packer's star players.
Injured is spelled wrong --> Many players injuried themselves and re-injuried themselves like Carpenter.
This season was a frustration for Carpenter for he played his heart and body to the point of exhaustion. WP:TONE primarily because you don't have a source to prove that he was so exhausted. So it sounds like a sentence from a sports magazine article (telling a story) instead of an encyclopedia article (stating the facts). If you're going to keep this sentence anyway, please consider putting "with all" in between "played" and "his". I think I've given enough examples of tone for you to understand the difference between the kind of writing in this article and kind of writing it needs to have so I will stop giving examples for the rest of this review.

Coaching Career

I think you should move this sentence --> In 1964 Carpenter became one of the assistant coaches of the Minnesota Vikings to the end so that it will serve as an introduction so to speak to your first sub-section which is about the Minnesota Vikings.
He served in various coaching positions and teams over the next 30 years. Suggestion: He served in various coaching positions with several teams over the next 30 years.
These included receivers coach, passing game coach and offensive coordinator for the Atlanta Falcons and the Washington Redskins. Why did you mention the teams that he was offensive coordinator for but not the teams that he was receivers game coach and offensive coordinator for? Just seems a little odd because it makes me think there's suppose to be something special about the Falcons and the Redskins since you mentioned them and not the others. I think you should take them out or add the other teams in that sentence to make it uniform. Just my opinion though.

Minnesota Vikings

This section is a good example of where a bullet list or a table would be more appropriate since you're already presenting your information in list/chronological form.
All of the dated sentences need references.
Why did you include this sentence about Brocklin's retirement? --> Head Coach Norm Van Brocklin, after a disapointing 29 win, 51 loss and 4 tie game record with the Vikings during his six years, resigned effectively in February 1967. His highlight season was two years prior in 1964 with an 8 win, 5 loss & 1 tie game record. This was when the Vikings tied for second place for the NFL Western Conference. Did his retirement affect Carpenter's job position? Please show how this information is related to Carpenter.
Please change the stand alone bullet into a sentence and/or incorporate that information into the sentence preceding it. Suggestion: Carpenter helped coach his brother, Preston Carpenter, who played as a tight end for the Vikings in 1966.[24]

Atlanta Falcons

WP:NOR This sentence needs a source due to the statistics you listed and the year --> In late 1966, Carpenter became one of the first coaches on the new NFL Atlanta Falcons franchise, the 23rd professional football club and the 15th NFL franchise.
These sentences --> In 1967, the Falcons played in the new Atlanta-Fulton County Stadium. The first preseason game was held on August 1, 1966, before a crowd of 26,072 at Atlanta Stadium. Under Head Coach Norb Hecker, the Falcons became the only expansion team in history not to finish in last place their first year. The Falcons finished seventh out of eight teams in the NFL's Eastern Conference should be removed because they are not relevant to the article (particularly since Carpenter is not mentioned) and would be more appropriate in an article about the Falcons or Norb Hecker. You also don't have sources for any of them.
This sentence --> Carpenter participated in many pivotal events for the newly created American football team called the Atlanta Falcons is out of place because it sounds like the opening sentence to your section but it occurs in the middle of the section after the information about Carpenter's first season with the Falcons. It also repeats your first sentence --> In late 1966, Carpenter became one of the first coaches on the new NFL Atlanta Falcons franchise... Perhaps you should combine both sentences together to serve as an introduction to this section.
The statements in this section that you do have references for all use Ref 26 and Ref 27. Neither of these mention Lewis Carpenter. Although these sources may verify Falcons' history, they do not verify any of the claims made about Carpenter WP:VERIFY.

Washington Redskins

His coaching and efforts had an influence on the 1969 season and future game play. It would be nice to elaborate on how he influenced the season. Did he create a new play? You could leave the reader adrift with this statement because what influence he had you do not go in to.
Those Vikings who became inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame include Sonny Jurgensen in 1983, Charley Taylor in 1984, Bobby Mitchell in 1983 and Sam Huff in 1982 were helped in one way or the other by Carpenter. (1) Please provide a source for this statement. (2) How were they helped? Please elaborate.
Carpenter's General Manager during his assistant coaching tenure was George Preston Marshall who was also inducted into the Hall of Fame in 1969. One of the Redskin's assistant coaches who worked with Carpenter, Mike McCormack was inducted in 1984. Vince Lombardi, the unforgetable coach, was inducted in 1971.[25] Interesting that all those guys got inducted. The Redskins at this time must have been an awesome team. My question is what does this have to do with Carpenter. It's great those other guys were inducted but how did this benefit Carpenter, how is this related to him? It seems like trivial information.

St. Louis Cardinals

The biggest problem with this section is that a lot of is has nothing to do with Carpenter. This is the biggest example --> The football club St. Louis Cardinals moved to St. Louis, Missouri, in 1960 and stayed there until 1987. Then the franchise moved to Tempe, Arizona and became the Arizona Cardinals. According to the information presented in the rest of the section, Carpenter left the St. Louis Cardinals in the early 70s. He wasn't with the Cardinals at all when they went to Arizona so this information doesn't apply to Carpenter's coaching career.
Another example --> When Carpenter got there in 1970 the club had many nick names such as, the "football Cardinals," "Big Red", "Gridbirds" or "Cardiac Cards" to avoid confusion with the baseball St. Louis Cardinals. Keep you're reader in mind when you edit articles. Not everyone who reads this article will know who Carpenter is or why he is important. Not everyone may be familiar with football. Why does your reader need to know about the Cardinals' nicknames? Their nicknames happened separate from Carpenter. If he would have came up with the idea for the team to have nicknames or if he would have created one himself then this would be relevant to a biographical article about Carpenter but since he didn't, it's not relevant.
Two brothers, Charles W. Bidwell, Jr. and William V. Bidwell (sons of the 1933-1947 Cardinal franchise owner Charles W. Bidwell, Sr. and the 1947–1962 owner, the widow, Mrs. Violet Bidwell) had joint custody of the franchise from 1962 to 1972. That was the year William V. Bidwell took sole control as managing general partner and made many changes in the coaching staff and players. More unrelated information about Bidwell family member relationships. Suggestion: In 1972, William V. Bidwell took control as managing general partner and made many changes in the coaching staff and players.
This sentence needs to be WP:VERIFY(d) --> Carpenter did work with and help coach future Pro Football Hall of Fame winners during his time with the Cardinals. These included Dan Dierdorf inducted in 1996, Jackie Smith inducted in 1994, Larry Wilson inducted in 1978 and Roger Wehrli inducted in 2007.[31] Ref 31 makes no mention of Carpenter so it does not prove this statement to be true. There are a couple other sentences like this in the sections that follow. I understand that with Carpenter being a tight end coach with X team at Y time, it makes sense that he would have coached Joe "tight end" Smith when he played for X team at Y time but this may not be obvious to your reader. Again, you should to keep your reader in mind WP:AUDIENCE. About your citation: when using citations, the material in the reference must back up what's stated in the article. Since this particular reference does not state that Carpenter was a coach for the Cardinals the year that those men played, it does not back up what is in the article. For this reason, that statement is not verified and it needs another reference (or to be taken out of the article).

Houston Oilers

This section also has the same problem with relevance. The entire first paragraph mentions many facts about the Oilers from 1970-1999 but there is no mention of Carpenter. You also have no references/sources for any of the information presented so it should probably be removed.
This sentence --> Gillman was inducted as a coach into the Pro Football Hall of Fame in 1983 and the College Football Hall of Fame in 1989.[32] has nothing to do with Carpenter. It would be more appropriate in article about Gillman or an article the Oilers.
Carpenter worked with and helped coach future Pro Football Hall of Fame winners during his time the Oilers. These include Elvin Bethea inducted in 2003 and Ken Houston inducted in 1986. Head coach Sid Gilman was inducted in 1989.[33] This sentence needs another citation because ref 33 does not mention Carpenter.

Green Bay Packers

More unrelated material. The entire second paragraph is unrelated to Carpenter except for the last sentence which makes an effort to tie Carpenter in. This sentence is WP:OR because Carpenter possibly being frustrated is an opinion/observation and not a fact.
The entire second paragraph is also unreferenced. Please WP:VERIFY.
A notorious example includes the 1974 trade in which... Please remove "notorious". It is WP:LABEL.
Head coach Sid Gilman was inducted in 1989.[33] This sentence/event has nothing to do with Carpenter's career. Please remove it.
These include coach Bart Starr who was inducted as a player in 1977, coach Forrest Gregg who was inducted as a player in 1977 and James Lofton, inducted in 2003.[36][37][38] Ref 36 does not back-up this claim (I did not check refs 37 and 38).

Detroit Lions

The first paragraph is great and I can see how all the information presented relates to Carpenter's career with the Lions.
I did not check the refs on the last sentence about the Hall of Fame players that Carpenter worked with. Please make sure that these references state that Carpenter worked with these men.

Philadelphia Eagles

This sentence is WP:OR -->In 1990, when Carpenter arrive, the Philadelphia Eagles head coach Buddy Ryan and his fiery attitude rejuvenated team performance and ignited the fan base, but the Eagles failed to win a playoff game during Ryan's tenure. Please add a "d" after "arrive".
The rest of the first paragraph is about the Eagles 90-94 season and doesn't make any mention of Carpenter. It would be more appropriate in an article about the Eagles.
I think this sentence --> Lew Carpenter was the Eagles wide receivers coach in 1990 – 1992 and the wide receiver/tight end coach in 1993 – 1994.[5][42] would be better as your first sentence instead of being a stand alone sentence toward the end of the section. It gives the reader a frame of reference concerning Carpenter's career with the Eagles WP:AUDIENCE
Lew Carpenter was the Eagles wide receivers coach in 1990 – 1992 and the wide receiver/tight end coach in 1993 – 1994. Please remove "Lew". It looks really random when for most of the article you have been referring to Lew as "Carpenter", and then for one sentence he's "Lew Carpenter" but for the sentence immediately after (and for the remainder of the article), he's back to "Carpenter".
Carpenter worked with and helped coach the following Pro Football Hall of Famers. These include Reggie White inducted in 2006 and James Lofton inducted in 2003.[38] Suggestion: Carpenter worked with and helped coach the following Pro Football Hall of Famers: Reggie White inducted in 2006 and James Lofton inducted in 2003.[38] Please ensure ref 36 can back-up this statement.

Later coaching

In 1995, Carpenter went back to Southwest Texas State University, now known as Texas State University–San Marcos and was the running backs coach under head coach Jim Bob Helduser.[5] Back in 1989, Carpenter had coached at the Southwest Texas State University as a backfield coach. Both college wiki links point to the same page, please remove one WP:OVERLINK. You also need a comma after "Texas State University-San Marcos"
I think you should take the following sentences out because they are not relevant to the article since they don't mention Lew at all --> In 1991, the World League of American Football was started in Europe supported by the NFL. This was not related to the United States 1974 – 1975 version called the World Football League. In 1995 the World League had six European teams.[43] In 1998, the NFL changed the name to NFL Europe. In June 2007, the NFL closed the NFL Europa franchises.[44][45] These sentences would be better in an article about American football in Europe.
Please put a space between "Houston" and "inducted" --> These include Elvin Bethea inducted in 2003 and Ken Houstoninducted in 1986.

Legacy and honors

I know I said I wasn't going to bring up tone anymore but this sentence--> Carpenter embodied a tremendous work ethic, a deeply gentle and private disposition, a passion for play and a ferocity that made it impossible for him to quit screams WP:TONE and WP:PEACOCK. It also violates WP:NPOV.
Carpenter reluctantly retired from the game he loved because of his health. Do you have a source for this statement? I know the next sentence says he died from pulmonary fibrosis but according to the dates you gave it was 14 years after he retired. Did he have P.F. when he retired (honest question, I don't know about the disease at all so I'm sincerely wondering if it's normal for p.f. to start in someone's body and take 14 years to be terminal).
The Lewis Carpenter University of Arkansas Scholarship has been established in his memory through Chase Bank at 111 West San Antonio Street, New Braunfels, TX 78130.[11] WP:PROMOTION and WP:NOTYELLOW. The address needs to be removed. In addition to the policy violations, the fact that an address is included makes it seem like internet begging.
The bulleted list is introduced kind'of haphazardly. There is no sentence that connects the last sentence with the bullet points. For this reason I think it would be better to change your bullet points into sentences to close out this section. Suggestion: Carpenter was inducted into the Arkansas Sports Hall of Fame in 1988 and the University of Arkansas Sports Hall of Fame in 2000. In [year] The Lewis Carpenter University of Arkansas Scholarship was established in his memory.

In media

For the entire article you go chronological order from earliest event to latest but for this section you start at the latest most recent event and go back in time. Is this on purpose <-- (I don't mean that in a rude way, I'm just trying to understand why you did that)? I suppose this isn't a big issue. It just doesn't make sense why you would switch the format at the end of the article.
The 1960 NFL Championship Game was filmed for television and the game was one of the first nationally televised football games. On December 26, 1960, at Franklin Field in Philadelphia, the Green Bay Packers took on the Philadelphia Eagles on their home field. Lew Carpenter played as Fullback. Which team did he play fullback back for? This is not obvious since he coached both. Also, fullback should not be capitalized.

See Also

Everything looks fine. Is there a football portal on Wikipedia? If so, it might be good to add the link.

Reference

At first glance, the formatting of most of your references look fine. Some of them are missing retrieval dates. I saw another (currently ref 22) that was missing a website publisher.
I did not go through all of them though or check all links so I do not know if they all work or point to where they're suppose to. I only checked some and the ones that violated Wikipedia's verify policy I already mentioned. There is one other I noticed that is troublesome (next bullet point).
Ref 5 is a big red flag for two reasons: it's self-published WP:SPS and because your user name is apart of the web address, that makes it a conflict of interest WP:COI. Please replace this reference with another that is more appropriate.
IMDbPro is a company/website so please do not use them as the author. I don't want to discourage you but from what I understand, it's not a reliable source either. Sorry, somebody had to tell you sooner or later.
For ISBN numbers use either the ten digit number OR the thirteen digit number. When you use both the link does not work.
Most references say "retrieved [date]" others say "accessed [date]". Please stick with one in order to be uniform.

External links

Everything looks great and you have persondata which should be used in all bios on Wikipedia so that's good too.

In closing, regardless of whether or not you implement any of this, it would be a good idea to get a good copy-editor to go over this article (or you can copy-edit it yourself, doesn't matter). That should take care of all the grammar and style issues. The good news is it's developed enough to be at least C-class so I changed the rating on the talk page from "start". The bad news is it needs a lot more work before it can get up to B-class. You have a lot of extra information that is about the teams Carpenter worked for or statistics about players/faculty Carpenter worked with but not necessarily about Carpenter himself. If you really don't want to take out this information, consider having a footnotes section like this article. That way you can still present this information to the reader but it would be in it's own section dedicated to extra information and the body of the article would have the "meat and potatoes". Here is another article that also has a footnotes section but the formatting is a little different, same idea though. I hope these suggestions are helpful. Again, please consider reading or at least browsing over WP:BLP. It's a long read but I do think if you go over it, it would help you improve your editing prior to submitting your next biographical article for peer review. //Gbern3 (talk) 18:58, 16 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]