Wikipedia:Peer review/List of chronometers on HMS Beagle/archive1

List of chronometers on HMS Beagle

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I think this may be a possible candidate for submission as a Featured List. However, this is the first time I have tried for a Featured List so I am a bit in the dark and need all the help I can get.

Thanks, Spinning Spark 02:02, 2 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Finetooth comments: This is an interesting and unusual list. I became interested in chronometers thanks to Dava Sobel and her book Longitude. The list has FL potential, I feel certain, but I think it will need further work before it can be considered ready. Here are my thoughts, general ones first:

The article has a choppy look because of the many individual tables and, in some cases, short intervening bits of text. I think this article would have a better shot at FL if you figured out ways to combine several small tables into larger tables. I don't think you need to try to put everything into a single table, but Adventure's 12 tables, for example, could be combined to make one table, perhaps with an additional column for the name or designation (A, B, C,...dash for no name). The intervening bits of text could then be merged into one set of paragraphs above the new, larger tables or, where necessary to keep the prose flow smooth, relegated to notes. Ditto for the other sections with multiple small tables.

It's good to keep red links to a minimum in articles heading to FLC. I'd think about creating an article for Molyneux, for example.

There are no dabs, but there's a dead URL in one citation. See here.

I would delete "Beagle" from three section heads since "Beagle" is part of the article title; i.e., "First voyage" instead of "Beagle's first voyage", etc.

Lead

"From 1825, this became standard and ships would be issued a second chronometer if the captain personally provided a third." - Tighten to straight past, "were", instead of "would be"?

"It was also necessary to take chronometers ashore or up rivers and inlets which were inaccessible to the ship in order to reach the points designated by the Admiralty for longitude measurements to be recorded." - A bit awkward. Suggestion: "To reach all points designated by the Admiralty for longitude measurements, it was sometimes necessary to take chronometers ashore or across inlets and up rivers too shallow for the ship." Or something like that.

"This was another reason for survey ships to carry a large number, the majority of them could be kept permanently in a safe, well cushioned place on board the ship." - Add a semicolon and tighten a bit? Suggestion: "This was another reason for survey ships to carry a large number; the majority could be kept permanently in a safe, well-cushioned place on the main vessel."

The caption beneath the lead image reads "Chronometer X from Beagle's second voyage by Thomas Earnshaw" - More clear might be "Chronometer X, made by Thomas Earnshaw, from Beagle's second voyage".

Beagle's first voyage

"On its first voyage... " - It would be helpful to insert the dates here. Most of the lead covers general historical background that may not need to appear elsewhere, but I'd incline toward embedding any Beagle-specific data in the appropriate subsections of the article to avoid forcing readers to backtrack to the lead.

I think it would be helpful to briefly explain "number", "type", and "winding" in the text. Otherwise readers have to guess at the meanings when they encounter these terms in the first table. I don't think you would need to repeat the explanations elsewhere, just on first use.

I wondered who Parkinson and Frodsham were as well as the other makers listed later in the article. Would it be useful to add notes on first use with a few details? Were these individuals, large companies, or something else? If they are individual clockmakers, I would include their first names on first use.

"King describes them as "excellent"." - To avoid making readers think that King might mean a contemporary author, perhaps "described" rather than "describes"?

Chronometer by Murray

"A welcome addition given King's concern over the French chronometer's newness." - This needs a verb to become a complete sentence. Maybe "This was a welcome... "?

Beagle's second voyage

"The Admiralty had not been so precise in specifying his itinerary across the Pacific since they could not be sure how far north he would be able to survey in the time available, and hence precisely where he would be leaving from, but they did specify he should stop at Tahiti, a point of previously well-determined longitude, and as the journey across the Atlantic, it should be done in small stages to frequently rate the chronometers." - Too complex. This should be recast as two or three separate sentences.

Since you link Australia, New Zealand, and so on, you should probably link Chile, Peru, and South America on first use. I might have missed some others.

"The total discrepancy was only 33 s but Fitz-Roy... " - I'd spell this out as "33 seconds".

"Others were loaned by chronometer makers who were all too keen to gain the prestige... " - Delete "all too" to avoid casting judgment that may violate WP:NPOV.

Notes

"Although this was the usual Royal Navy source of chronometers at the time... " - This needs a reliable source, I think.

Bibliography

For books too old to have ISBNs, you might want to add OCLCs. These are usually available via WorldCat.

Please make sure that the existing text includes no copyright violations, plagiarism, or close paraphrasing. For more information on this please see Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2009-04-13/Dispatches. (This is a general warning given in view of previous problems that have risen over copyvios.)

I hope these suggestions prove helpful. If so, please consider commenting on any other article at WP:PR. I don't usually watch the PR archives or make follow-up comments. If my suggestions are unclear, please ping me on my talk page. Finetooth (talk) 03:05, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Hello again my friend Finetooth. Thank you for reviewing! Spinning Spark 18:39, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You are most welcome. Finetooth (talk) 03:05, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I am not very good at getting possessives right, but are you sure about this? The French chronometers being referred to are chronometers A to H, so the possessive should be plural should it not? Spinning Spark 00:54, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. I misunderstood the possessive to refer to "This chronometer... " instead of the whole group. I recast slightly just now to avoid the problem altogether. I think it's OK now. Finetooth (talk) 03:05, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I believe everything above is now addressed. For the benefit of other reviewers, Finetooth's additional comments below are in response to a talk page request. Spinning Spark 13:00, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Finetooth comments, part 2:

Yes, I think the revised tables look much better, and the overall layout looks very good. I made a few proofing changes, and here is a short list of minor things:

Chronometer makers

"16 chronometers used to determine the accurate longitude of Madeira in 1822" - Link Madeira on first use and perhaps not again further down?
- Done

"Charles Frodsham & Co. Ltd. is still in existence today but no longer at The Strand." - Delete "today" or substitute "2012". Also, if not at The Strand, then where?
- Changed to "...still in existence, but have moved from the Strand to another London address." I have not given the exact address, partly because the cited source does not give it, and partly because the street does not have an article and is not notable (they have moved off the Monopoly board!).

"reaching the furthest point south achieved by any ship (or chronometer) up to that time" - Can the time (year) be added?
- Done

Attrition

"Alexander Burns Usborne, who had been put in charge of a small boat, Constitucion," - Since this is the Spanish spelling, more-or-less, should it actually be Constitución?
- I guess you are right, the boat was purchased locally, so I have changed it. It is however, a little dubious: all the contemporary English-language sources (and even some Spanish) have Constitucion. There are modern sources that can be cited if necessary with Constitución but it is possible this is a back-formation.

Third voyage

"with frequent stops to check the rates throughout the voyage" - Is "rates" the right word?
- Yes, "rate" is used as both a verb and a noun wrt chronometers and "check the rate" is a stock phrase.

"It was lost in HMS Erebus when she was abandoned ice-bound in the Arctic during Franklin's lost expedition attempting to find the Northwest Passage." - This and the claim about Irresistable need inline citations to sources, I think. Some of the other embedded asides might also. I'd suggest looking them over and adding sources for any with precise numbers or dates or claims that are otherwise not common knowledge or obvious from context.
- I will add sources for these, they are both well-documented events so won't be hard to find. The loss of the chronometer when the ships went down is already cited to the Greenwich archives. Spinning Spark 13:00, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Best of luck at FLC. Finetooth (talk) 00:26, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]