Wikipedia:Peer review/Rodger Young/archive1

Rodger Young

Hey all! I'm considering nominating this for GA, preferably before July 31, the anniversary of his death. (I'd like a DYK for him on July 31.) As this is my first actual first into GA, If appreciate feedback. I know the references probably need work; tips on where I need some would be nice.

Thank you all for your time and stay safe, -- puddleglum^2.0 02:40, 12 May 2020 (UTC)

Comments from Eddie891

Will comment here shortly. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 00:15, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Eddie891, thanks! I actually already got this to GA and must have malformed the withdrawal, but if you want to look at it for a potential A-class or FA nom in the future, that would be great - I know I have to expand it some, but not quite sure where. Cheers, -- puddleglum^2.0 01:48, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Puddleglum2.0: Sure! I could comment here or on the article talk. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 19:32, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Eddie891 - whichever's best for you, thanks a lot! -- puddleglum^2.0 19:34, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Then I'll comment here (probably tomorrow) Cheers, Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 19:37, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Here goes:

• MOS:TIES suggests this should use AmEng (American English). This appears to be written in BrEng?

•  Done switched to AmEng.

• "Young served in the Ohio National Guard." could use years to give the reader something to anchor on

•  Done added - 1939

• "a song in honour of Young's courage but also recognising the overall valour displayed by infantrymen, particularly in World War II." eh something's off here. Could you rephrase it? Not sure what, but I can take a look again if you don't know

•  Done but would appreciate thoughts, it may be a bit clunky.

• " Night Infiltration Course" what is the night infiltration course? Should it be capitalized?

•  Done nope

• lead would benefit from more detail about his life if possible

•  Done added, again, would appreciate thoughts.

• "but later on in his childhood he and his family moved to Clyde, Ohio." date?

•  Question: Couldn't find a date and not quite sure where to look now. Thoughts?

• " to allow him to play the occasional game" reads really informally

•  Done

• "significant but gradual hearing loss and damage to his eyesight." were both gradual?

•  Done yes, reworded to make more clear.

• So he couldn't hear lessons and could barely see, but could join the national guard? seems a little unbelievable to me.

•  Done fixed, but would appreciate some input on the fix.

• "At the time of his joining, Young was only 5 feet 2 inches (1.57 m) tall" did his height change?

•  Done fixed.

• " although he was short and wore glasses, his fellow soldiers considered him a good soldier" should probably be split into its own sentence. Could you eliminate the duplicate use of soldier?

•  Done Instead of making it two sentences, I made the one sentence less clunky - what say you?

• better

• "By this time, though, " not really needed

•  Done

• I doubt malingering is a commonly known term, could link

•  Done

• "not wanting to miss the New Georgia landing," what landing?

•  Done

• "Young carried out the actions that led to his posthumous award of the Medal of Honor." this is a little bit foreshadowing, which (while technically it's fine) I think could just be trimmed.

•  Question: not quite sure how?

• I'd personally change to an introduction sentence about the Battle of Munda Point, something along the lines of "The commander accepted his request, and on DATE Young landed with his company on the Solomon Islands"/ Er that's actually not ideal phrasing, but something along those lines (I'm not familiar with the campaign so cannot say much more)

• "Young was wounded." any more detail on his wound?

•  Question: no - do you think it's necessary?

• not particularly

• "Despite his courage, Young was soon hit by enemy fire and killed." beware of editorializing, while he undoubtedly was courageous, it's more for the reader to decide than us.

•  Done

• MOH citation needs a citation? Any more background on the awarding of the MOH?

•  Done not a ton of background, but added what little I could.

• Find a grave is generally unreliable. It's probably fine for the burial place, but not for "Young's body was transferred to the United States in 1949"

•  Done

• "himself held a speech" perhaps "gave a speech"?

•  Done

• "in which he retold" retold or republished?

•  Done changed to quoted.

• What makes militaryhallofhonor.com a reliable source?

• I believe it's written by military historians, based on some research. That would be reliable I think, but I'm no great shakes at Wikipedia RS, so guidance would be appreciated.

• I'm afraid it looks like it's open to anybody editing it (see their about page: "We invite you, our fellow patriots, to join us" and disclaimer "Some pages are not moderated and may contain the personal opinions and other expressions of the persons who post the entries. MHOH does not control, monitor or guarantee the information")

That's it for a first pass, overall a nice and readable article. These are, of course, just suggestions so feel free to discuss/ask for clarification on any. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 21:21, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments! It'll take me a couple days to get through them, I'll ping you if I have questions or concerns if that's ok. All the best, -- puddleglum^2.0 23:04, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

@Eddie891: I've addressed all these points - there are a couple questions that I had, but besides that, should be all fixed for that! -- puddleglum^2.0 22:15, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

I'll respond on some above, but for the ones where you don't have the information, there's little that can be done. I don't really have much time to look on my own, but if you'd like I could see what turns up from my subscription databases. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:29, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks: if you don't have a lot of time, I don't want to use it up with this, it's fine if you don't check your sources - there's very little in Young, so I kind of doubt even those would have anything. I'll continue looking though, and add sources as I come across them. Cheers -- puddleglum^2.0 23:36, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Funnily enough I was once in almost exactly the same situation as you are now; with Ira T. Wyche, another US army soldier. It was my first GA and I took it through a very helpful PR, where I was told to remove MHOH sourcing too. I'd suggest politely asking two or three experienced MILHIST editors to comment here if you want further feedback; the worst they can say is no, and it's likely they will have good feedback to offer. Nice work! Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:45, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

I've clipped some Newspapers.com articles here, here, and here. Not sure if you had access to them, or if they will be helpful, but do with them what you will. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 23:51, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

Thanks! That's a pretty funny coincidence, always interesting to make connections like that. Those clippings look good, thanks for finding them! I've dropped a line at the Milhist talk page - Zawed, a coord there, reviewed the GA. Thanks for everything! -- puddleglum^2.0 23:57, 12 June 2020 (UTC)

• You can also consider WP:MILHIST/ACR, that is usually effective for getting an article into shape for FAC. buidhe 01:03, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Yup, that's what I was planning on doing. Thanks everyone for the comments - I'm pretty busy this week with TO and then the GOCE Drive and coordinator elections, but I hope to address these ASAP. Thanks again and cheers -- puddleglum^2.0 20:49, 14 June 2020 (UTC)

Comments from Nick-D

• Young clearly shouldn't have been anywhere near a front line unit given his medical conditions, much less serving as an infantryman - do any of the sources discuss why he slipped through the cracks? This may have been linked to the poor leadership of the US Army units involved in the New Georgia Campaign
• Do we know why Heinlein was so interested in Young?
• I agree that https://homeofheroes.com/ isn't a reliable source.

• I hope you mean the Medal of Honor site? I think HOH is pretty reliable.

• It looks totally unreliable. Using this site as a reference means the GA criteria are not met. Nick-D (talk) 07:39, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Nick-D (talk) 09:41, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

Comments from AustralianRupert: G'day, thanks for your efforts with this article. I have come across Young's story before, having done some work on the New Georgia campaigns and its battles, and have always found his story fascinating, sad, and inspiring all at the same time. I have a few minor suggestions to hopefully help improve this article: AustralianRupert (talk) 08:54, 13 June 2020 (UTC)

• "pass the exams to enter the Ohio National Guard" --> "pass the exams necessary to enter the Ohio National Guard"?

•  Done

• "withdraw from an enemy ambush" --> probably best just to say "withdraw from a Japanese ambush"

•  Done

• do we know what his parents did for a living?

• I just found that they were a blue-collar family, I couldn't find anything specific. Do you think I should look even deeper?

• do we know why he moved between Tiffin, Green Springs and Clyde in his early years?

• Nope. Very little is known about his early life.

• "Although he was not accepted at first" --> suggest not using "Although" here as it seems a little repetitious, having been used earlier in the paragraph

•  Done

• do we know what occupation he had after dropping out of high school?

• Don't think he had one, his first occupation was at the National Guard.

• the infobox lists his service years as 1938-1943, but the first paragraph of the Military service section says he applied to the National Guard in 1939

•  Done the infobox's fault.

• the infobox lists "Battle of New Georgia" but this should probably be replaced with "Battle of Munda Point"

•  Done

• the Purple Heart is mentioned in the infobox but isn't referenced in the article

• I honestly couldn't find a source that says he got one - it's inferred because the PH is given to every soldier killed in the line of duty, but no RS. :/

• if known, suggest mentioning something about him in relation to 1941 as the narrative jumps from October 1940 to 1942
• "In 1942, soon after..." --> do we know which month?
• suggest mentioning what battalion of the 148th he served in -- given that he was B Coy, I assume he was in the 1st Battalion, 148th -- do the sources say anything about this?