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Rogue River (Oregon)

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I've listed this article for peer review because I'd like to take it to FAC in the near future. I think it's ready, but past experience has taught me that I don't see everything and that the advice of others is invariably helpful.

Thanks, Finetooth (talk) 01:14, 1 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Ruhrfisch comments This looks very good to me - here are some nitpicks through Geology, more in the next 24 hours.

The external link checker finds one dead link...
Would it make sense to add "west" to the first sentence, so The Rogue River in the southwestern part of the U.S. state of Oregon flows about 215 miles (346 km) from the Cascade Range [west] to the Pacific Ocean. If this makes the sentence too complex, could the general direction of the flow be made clearer in the first paragraph of the lead?
The "also volcanic" at the end of the third sentence seems a little awkward, but I am unable to come up with a better formulation
I have read elsewhere that 8 rivers were originally named in the text of the 1968 Wild and Scenic Rivers Act, but not all 8 became Wild and Scenic Rivers (Pine Creek did not) and some rivers that were not explicitly named in the act still officially became wild and scenic rivers in the first group officially named. All this is to say that ... it was one of the original eight rivers included in the Wild and Scenic Rivers Act of 1968. might be better as ...it was one of the original eight rivers named in the Wild and Scenic Rivers Act of 1968. This is verb used in the article body (named)
Some people at FAC dislike verb plus ing constructions (I am OK with them) - would After the war, settlers, expanding into remote areas of the watershed, established small farms along the river between Grave Creek and the mouth of the Illinois River. be better as After the war, settlers expanded into remote areas of the watershed and established small farms...?
In Course I would wikilink Crater Lake National Park
Add "the mouth at"? ...which included 84 miles (135 km) of the Rogue, from 7 miles (11.3 km) west of Grants Pass to 11 miles (18 km) east of [the mouth at] Gold Beach.[8]
Watershed section - this seems a little clunky after the National Forests secntence These and other forests cover about 83 percent of the basin;... Perhaps something like About 83 percent of the basin is covered by forests;.. or perhaps These are included in the 83 percent of the basin covered by forests;... I don't know...
I thought precipitation was in inches and mm (not cm)?
Geology - since chromium does not usually occur as the native metal, I think I would use "chromium ore" instead of "chrome" in The Josephine peridotite was a source of valuable chrome, mined in the region between 1917 and 1960.[24]

Hope this helps, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 04:49, 9 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, thank you very much. I'm knocking off for the night, and tomorrow will be mostly filled with real-life adventures, so no hurry on further comments (though they will be most welcome at any time). Finetooth (talk) 05:11, 9 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

More comments

You are very welcome - here are more comments. I think Archeologists believe the first humans to inhabit the Rogue River region were nomadic hunters and gatherers.[26] reads smoother
It seems like there could be a better word chocie than "although" in Intermarriage was common, and although many dialects belonging to three different language groups were spoken in the region, many people knew more than one language.[27] Although seems to me to imply something unexpected, but knowing more than one language in an area with many dialects and three languages seems, um, expected.

I agree with you on all points and have made adjustments accordingly. This is very helpful, and any other suggestions will be appreciated. Finetooth (talk) 18:34, 10 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yet more comments

Sorry to be slow on my comments, but glad they are useful.
I had to reread this sentence about three times to really get it: In 1827 an HBC expedition led by Peter Skene Ogden made the first direct contact between whites and the inland Rogue River natives when, from the Klamath River basin to the south, he crossed the Siskiyou Mountains to look for beaver along Bear Creek and other streams in the Rogue Valley.[32] Perhaps split it into two? Or move the phrase "from the Klamath River basin to the south" elsewhere in the sentence?
Since there is already a note at the end of the sentence explaining this, would it help to add to the note that Coquin is French for "rogue"? Or am I underestimating the general reader here (Is it obvious)?
Could this be tightened a bit? The number of whites entering the Rogue River watershed greatly increased after 1846, when a party of 15 men led by Jesse Applegate developed a southern ~~trail, an~~ alternative to the Columbia River segment of the Oregon Trail, that could be used by emigrants headed for the Willamette Valley.[34] perhaps the last phrase could be something like the Oregon Trail; the new trail was used by emigrants headed for the Willamette Valley.[34]
Does this need a ref? As the white population increased and Indian losses of land, food sources, and personal safety mounted, bouts of violence upstream and down continued through 1854–55, culminating in the Rogue River War of 1855–56.
River mile and kilometer have already been defined earlier in the article so not needed here: Marial, at river mile (RM) 48 or river kilometer (RK) 77, is about 13 miles (21 km) upriver from Illahe and 21 miles (34 km) from Agness.[55]
I think this paragraph would be much clearer if it explicitly said that the hatcheries released fish In 1877, in connection with his commercial fishery, Hume built a hatchery at Ellensburg (Gold Beach)...he had salmon eggs shipped to it from the Elk Creek station.[67][n 3] One way to do this would be if amounts for any year or time period is known, then a sentence like "In 19xx, the hatchery released Y million salmon ..." could be added.
Lead says William L. Jess Dam is 158 miles upriver, but the article says 157 miles. Which is it?
Is notching going to be understood by most readers? In 2008, USACE notched the Elk Creek Dam and restored Elk Creek to its original channel.[91]
I think it would help to add the year (again) to The damaged dam was completely removed before construction of the Savage Rapids Dam [in 1921].[92]
EPA is used in Pollution, but not defined until the next section
Would it be possible to give an idea of what the temperature TMDLs are in Pollution?
Tighten? Salmonids found in the Rogue River downstream of Lost Creek Lake include Coho salmon, spring ~~Chinook salmon,~~ [and] fall Chinook salmon, [and] summer ~~steelhead,~~ and winter steelhead.
Make clearer that this is on the main stem of the Rogue itself? The longest run, northwest of Grants Pass, is "one of the best-known whitewater runs in the United States".[77]
Does Elk Creek enters the Rogue River 5 miles (8.0 km) downstream from Lost Creek Lake. need a ref?

Hope this helps, please let me know when this is at FAC, Ruhrfisch _><>°^° 03:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

These too were all good suggestions, and I've made changes accordingly. The toughest was the TMDL question, for which there is no simple answer; I added an explanatory note that includes one kind of temperature limit in the TMDL and cites a specific source page that gives a more full explanation. Thank you very much for the review; it was quite helpful. Finetooth (talk) 21:14, 11 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]