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Terra Nova: Strike Force Centauri

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This peer review discussion has been closed.
Looking to take this to FAC. I brought it to GAN a few months ago, and have since copyedited the article and heavily expanded its Development section. I haven't nominated an article at FAC in two years, so I'd greatly appreciate any commentary on the sources, prose and image rationales, which may not be up to today's standards. However, if you notice problems with anything else, feel free to point those out as well. Thanks. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 06:35, 29 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • {{doing}} Yell at me if I don't have something by tomorrow night EST :) Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 00:46, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Okey dokey, some starter comments:
    • "Terra Nova has been cited as one of the first three-dimensional (3D) games with squad-oriented gameplay;" - you should probably clarify "3D" as "3D graphics". Same thing in the gameplay section.
    • In the gameplay section you use lots of grouped terms like "the latter", "the first" and "the last" where just explaining which specific nouns you're referring to would probably be simpler.
    • A little more disambig for some bluelinks would be nice, for example, saying "As with (Looking Glass' previous game) System Shock", "(novels) Starship Troopers and The Forever War", "(Game designer) Paul Nuerath..., etc.
    • "did not break even" --> Might be too informal for an encyclopedia article? --Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 15:21, 1 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Some scattered comments:

  • Redirect checker is telling me that you have a few- PC Gamer UK/US don't have their own articles; single-player in the infobox; computer game in the lead, Solar System is capitalized, and bipedal is redirecting to bipedalism.
  • The Computer Shopper link in the references is to a disambiguation page (though the one in the article text isn't).
  • The external link checker is throwing a 404 for this, which isn't true, but combined with the half-broken nature of the page is a reminder that you might want to go through and find webarchive/webcite links for everything, as links from 1996 tend to vanish without warning. --PresN 19:49, 3 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • I wrote a script that would automatically archive everything, only to realize that you already have it all archived. So, ignore that last one there. --PresN 17:42, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Leaving comments and suggestions as I read through the article. Note that I never played the game, but if you are the primary editor of the article, there should be no problems with factual accuracy.

  • "the player is often assisted by artificial intelligence-controlled teammates"
    • The AI bit sounds a bit weird there, possibly rephrase
      • "Computer-controlled", maybe? I'm not sure that's better. I originally settled on "artificial intelligence-controlled" after several attempts to find a good description. It isn't great, admittedly, but I don't know how I could improve it. Any suggestions? JimmyBlackwing (talk) 07:24, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "many noted the game's steep system requirements"
  • "Ultima Underworld: The Stygian Abyss", "MechWarrior 2: 31st Century Combat"
  • "can process 3D outdoor environments and a simulation of physics"
  • "enables procedural animation and other effects"
  • "from a character's eye view"
    • Common phrase? Maybe something like "takes place in a three-dimensional (3D) graphical environment seen from the perspective of a playable character"
  • "three-dimensional (3D)"
    • abbreviation is introduced twice in the article
      • It's always been my practice to introduce abbreviations in both the lead and in the body. In the days of ye olde MOS, I think this may have been standard. Maybe I'm a little out-of-date. Any idea? JimmyBlackwing (talk) 07:24, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • I think it's great that you re-use wikilinks immediately after the lead, I can imagine many people skipping the first section. I guess the bigger problem I have with the double introduction is that it's such a common expression, basically everybody should know it (will definitely bring 2D/3D up at MOS to be added to the WP:ABBR list). Prime Blue (talk) 19:28, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
          • Yeah, that'd be great. I've always written it as plain-old "3D", but, over the last year or so, a lot of people have started asking for it to be clarified. David's comment above is an example. I don't have a problem with it either way, but I think it'd be a good addition to ABBR. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 01:56, 5 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The player character wears"
    • Word "character" used in the previous sentence, "player" in the next sentence; maybe use "protagonist"
      • Fixed. Since that sentence was used to introduce the term "player character" into the article, removing it kind of threw off the rest of its uses. I changed them all to "protagonist" for good measure. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 07:24, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "features jumpjets, lock-on targeting, infrared and zoomed vision, and regenerating shields"
  • "among other things"
  • "up to three artificial intelligence-controlled squadmates"
  • "from holding a position, to taking cover, to rushing enemies"
  • "half of a squad may be used to distract enemies while the other attacks an objective"
  • The word "squadmate" is used often in this paragraph, any synonyms?
  • "the right depicts weapons, suit status, drones and ASFs"
    • Don't know what drones and ASFs are (if important, mention in prose)
      • Drones are somewhat important to the gameplay, but Terra Nova is one of the most ridiculously over-complex games I've ever played; an in-depth description of its gameplay would be a cruft disaster. Removed them. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 06:27, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "that describes such things as objectives, squad size and enemies"
  • "Each may be equipped with such things as"
  • "Auxiliary Suit Function"
  • "increased jumpjet power"
  • "assessed it as "Aliens-esque""
  • "In charge of the squad is commander Arlen MacPherson"
    • This is a bit unclear, I thought Nikola ap Io was in charge, maybe use "overall charge" or something
  • "Project Leader Dan Schmidt later described these scenes as "cheesier than most" of those in other games, and said that "I wince a lot looking back on [them]"."
    • Should be "Project leader Dan Schmidt"; sentence might fit the development section (end of third paragraph) better as the cheesiness of the cutscenes is not really a part of the setting
      • That's true. Fixed.
  • "A reconnaissance mission by Nikola identifies them at a heavily defended pirate base"
  • "a minor previous information leak was in fact the work of a Hegemony spy"
    • Should be explained more if it is an important plot point
  • "Nikola's dropship is ambushed and shot down"
    • Don't know what a dropship is
  • "At his funeral, Ashford accuses Nikola of being the traitor."
    • Might be a minor qualm, but how do they know that there is a traitor if Pentheus only told Nikola?
      • I think the squad might have guessed something along those lines before that point, but it's not really put in concrete terms until the whole Pentheus thing. I tried to keep the plot section as small as possible; it doesn't mention a few of the more minor plot threads, and several less-important characters got the axe. There's actually a huge cast (20-some characters, including 8-9 squadmates), but only the ones with central roles in the main story arc got mentioned. Like with the gameplay section, I summarized stuff as briefly as possible to avoid cruft. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 06:27, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "It soon becomes clear that MacPherson is being poisoned"
    • Continuously?
      • Yeah, I think so. That's how they make it sound, in any case. I think someone says, "Someone is poisoning Mac", or somesuch. I always thought it was a bit odd that they never tried to stop him from being regularly poisoned. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 06:27, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Company co-founder Paul Neurath"
  • "It was originally titled Freefall, due to the way soldiers in the game enter combat by dropping from aircraft"
    • "The game was originally titled Freefall, due to the way the soldiers enter combat by dropping from aircraft"
  • "led the game's development"
  • "Then-Tribe members"
  • "didn't have any it would look second-rate"
  • "So now we have this game that's already late, and half of our resources are being poured into doing the full motion video"
    • Development uses many direct quotes such as that one, the less significant of which could be rephrased to normal prose
      • Another bad habit of mine. However, I tried my best to cut down on the amount of quotes before I nominated it for PR. The issue really needs a clean pair of eyes. Do you have any specific suggestions? It'll make fixing the problem much easier. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 06:27, 6 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • Of the 30 direct quotes in the main development section, I think the ones that could be reworked are "got the team underway", "staying out of your way", "fixed end date", "still inherited that vision and never thought to change it", "was very difficult", "became the lead programmer just because there was a void to fill and I bubbled up to it", "So now we have this game that's already late, and half of our resources are being poured into doing the full motion video", "probably a business mistake", "ended up just costing us more and delaying the game even more than it already was", "had to ship or the company was going to go under or we were going to cancel it", "made the game way more fun", "the team finally came together near the end of the project". Prime Blue (talk) 20:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The game's lateness"
  • "needed to achieve break-even"
  • "that the game's already-lengthy"
  • "much more arcadey"
  • "fully 3D outdoor environments"
  • "moves characters' models"
  • "designer Richard Wyckoff later compared them to those of "a marble""
    • Possibly put this at the end of the sentence, or in another
      • I'm not sure what you mean. The Wyckoff comment relates to the "basic physics" used to propel characters, and they aren't mentioned again after that sentence. It seems like it would be non-sequitur if placed elsewhere. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your suggestion, though. Could you clarify? JimmyBlackwing (talk) 04:01, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • Just seemed a bit intrusive to me there. Possibly "Designer Richard Wyckoff later compared the physics to those of a marble". In any case, the "them" should be replaced to identify it as the physics. Prime Blue (talk) 20:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and did not break even"
  • "Despite this, it was acclaimed by critics"
  • "more fun than a barrelful of"
  • "and described performance issues"
  • "He finished"
  • "Schmidt later said that he had"
  • "While Dan Schmidt said before the game's release"
    • "While Schmidt said before the game's release"
    • More reception: There's a GameRankings entry for the game, and the awards in the review box can be mentioned in prose
      • I don't think that a GameRankings entry based on 3 reviews is particularly critical to the article. However, if you think more coverage of the game's reception is necessary, I have access to a few more print reviews that I could include. They'd probably add up to another paragraph or so. Oh, and could you clarify what you mean about the awards? I'm not that clear on how they're supposed to be used; the last time I discussed it with someone was, I believe, in 2009. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 04:01, 7 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        • Didn't pay attention to the number of reviews – yup, that's not really helpful. I think the reception section is good to go (didn't read the awards properly either, those are not really significant enough to mention in prose). Prime Blue (talk) 20:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just realized that "Multi-Function Displays" is in quotation marks, while other game-specific terms ("Random Scenario Builder") are not. Prime Blue (talk) 20:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Also, non-judgmental single words ("simulation", "a marble") are not put between quotation marks. Prime Blue (talk) 20:09, 9 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • "in a hamster ball" is very similar to this and sounds strange if quoted solely. Depending on what Schmidt said, I'd either extend the quote to "putting each character in a hamster ball" (or whichever his quote was), or remove the quotation marks altogether. Prime Blue (talk) 16:39, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Image review:

Shpadoinkle. Prime Blue (talk) 21:53, 3 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Partial source review:

  • For manuals, there's {{Cite manual}}; I'm not sure if it's a deal-breaker, but I would welcome the manual source to be split into individual sections with page numbers (even if it's annoying to change this now, it's just more thorough as far as sourcing goes)
    • I really, really hate citing specific pages. I tried that once while working on another article, and the soul-destroying tedium of it nearly drove me insane. If you think it'll make a difference at FAC, I'll do it; but if not, I'd like to avoid it. JimmyBlackwing (talk) 09:28, 9 May 2011 (UTC) [reply]
  • If ref. 2 is a press release, there's {{Cite press release}}; is there a URL?

Prime Blue (talk) 19:28, 4 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

--Der Wohltemperierte Fuchs(talk) 19:19, 11 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Reread the article. used green for remaining qualms and suggestions. Again, good work with the fixes. I don't regularly check the FA nominations, so it would be nice of you to give me a heads-up so I can support it as one of its peer reviewers. Prime Blue (talk) 16:39, 23 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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