Wikipedia:Peer review/Tyla (album)/archive2
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Second PR since the first one did not go well. I would hint that I have had a lot of help from several mentors (here and [here + here]) to improve the quality of the article. Reference assessment would be very much appreciated. dxneo (talk) 00:32, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
I'm not a FAC reviewer, so just a few comments, intended as an extension of GAN.
In an interview with Nandi Madida on Apple Podcasts, Tyla said that she wanted to Kickstart her album with a South African sound.
this is a strange sentence:
- Why is there a random sentence in this paragraph about the start of the album
- Why is kickstart capitalised?
- Why is it important to mention that the interview was on Apple Podcasts?
Tyla released her debut single "Getting Late"
later that yearTyla directed the music video
for "Getting Late"a recording that plays in the background
add "consisting of" to the start of thisTyla stated that she wanted to Kickstart the album
kickstart capitalised again
Okay, I'll leave it there. Thanks Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 09:43, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
- Hello Rollinginhisgrave, thanks for review, you are appreciated. I have addressed the issues you've raised. About "a random sentence in this paragraph about the start of the album," I like to take reference from from multiple viewpoints. I was adviced to add it on the lead on one mentorship program. Thoughts? dxneo (talk) 11:08, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
- Sure, it appears out of place to my eye, but it could very well just be me. Rollinginhisgrave (talk) 11:11, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
Comments by Paper Luigi
[edit]As courtesy for your contribution to my peer review request, here are my thoughts on how this article can be improved:
General
- I suggest using the script at User:Evad37/duplinks-alt to identify and remove any wikilinks that appear more than once after the lead. The script will add a link on the sidebar that adds a red border around them.
Done dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
Lead
- The first paragraph is much shorter than the other two paragraphs in the lead. The last paragraph may even be too lengthy.
- Since this is second PR (and informally, it is the fourth), I was advice to expand the lead paragraphs a few weeks ago and take reference from 1989. dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
the album includes guest appearances
- Is there a music-specific term that can be substituted for "guest appearances" here? Maybe "contributing vocals"?
- Done but producers did provide some additional vocals and I'm guessing those are "contributing vocals" too. Oh and Kelvin Momo is a record producer, I've undone the edit. dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
Tyla was supported by four singles
- Five song titles are listed after this statement and in the infobox.
- Done dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
"Water", which peaked at number 7 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart, and received multi-platinum certificates in many countries
- How many countries? It's better to be specific than not. No comma is needed after the word "chart" as what follows is part of the same clause. Also, do other bodies besides the RIAA certify albums as platinum?
- I think it's safe to keep it as multiple, since certifications are likely to change any time. Not sure what you mean by "do other bodies besides the RIAA certify albums as platinum?" dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
- According to the RIAA's "About" page on its official website, "Only sales and streams occurring in the United States qualify for RIAA certifications." A platinum certification can only be issued by the RIAA unless there are other music-certifying agencies in other countries that use "platinum" as a sales designation. The body of the article does mention that "Water" was certified double-platinum in the U.S., but that is the only instance of "platinum" outside the lead. According to the album article, the only other country that issued a sales certificate for the single is Brazil, which issued a diamond certificate. It further states that Brazil and Canada both awarded a gold certificate for the album but not for the single.
- Still not sure where you are going with this. What should be fixed? dxneo (talk) 02:18, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- The term "multi-platinum" in this sentence is technically correct as "Water" was certified double-platinum by the RIAA, but for accuracy's sake, I suggest changing this phrasing to "double-platinum". The "in many countries" bit is factually incorrect because the RIAA does not award platinum certificates to albums outside of the US. I suggest changing the original line,
"Water", which peaked at number 7 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart, and received multi-platinum certificates in many countries
to instead read,"Water", which peaked at number 7 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart and was certified double-platinum by the RIAA
. — Paper Luigi T • C 08:42, 29 September 2024 (UTC)- Oh thanks for clarifying. With that being said, it was like that before, but 2 or 3 reviewers challenged that statement by asking that,
since "Water" has been certefied in so many countries, why am I only mentioning the US?
That's why I opted to specifying as I did. I also think specifying the number of "platinums" is a bit off since certifications may change as time goes by. I also cannot mention "the RIAA" in the lead, "the US" is better as the lead is a summary. What do you think? Should I just change it or leave it like that? If I should change, please rephrase it a bit for me so that I can just copy and paste.
Thank you so much for helping. dxneo (talk) 10:36, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, after doing further research on music certificates in other countries, I'm going to backpedal on this and say that the phrasing as it stands is perfectly acceptable. The table at Water (Tyla song)#Certifications lists more than a dozen agencies that issued the song a "platinum" certificate. The album's article only mentions the U.S. agency, which made me think that it hadn't sold as well as it really did. — Paper Luigi T • C 05:28, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you. dxneo (talk) 17:20, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, after doing further research on music certificates in other countries, I'm going to backpedal on this and say that the phrasing as it stands is perfectly acceptable. The table at Water (Tyla song)#Certifications lists more than a dozen agencies that issued the song a "platinum" certificate. The album's article only mentions the U.S. agency, which made me think that it hadn't sold as well as it really did. — Paper Luigi T • C 05:28, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
- Oh thanks for clarifying. With that being said, it was like that before, but 2 or 3 reviewers challenged that statement by asking that,
- The term "multi-platinum" in this sentence is technically correct as "Water" was certified double-platinum by the RIAA, but for accuracy's sake, I suggest changing this phrasing to "double-platinum". The "in many countries" bit is factually incorrect because the RIAA does not award platinum certificates to albums outside of the US. I suggest changing the original line,
- Still not sure where you are going with this. What should be fixed? dxneo (talk) 02:18, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- According to the RIAA's "About" page on its official website, "Only sales and streams occurring in the United States qualify for RIAA certifications." A platinum certification can only be issued by the RIAA unless there are other music-certifying agencies in other countries that use "platinum" as a sales designation. The body of the article does mention that "Water" was certified double-platinum in the U.S., but that is the only instance of "platinum" outside the lead. According to the album article, the only other country that issued a sales certificate for the single is Brazil, which issued a diamond certificate. It further states that Brazil and Canada both awarded a gold certificate for the album but not for the single.
- I think it's safe to keep it as multiple, since certifications are likely to change any time. Not sure what you mean by "do other bodies besides the RIAA certify albums as platinum?" dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
The Tyla Tour was announced, some dates of which were cancelled due to injuries and some were rescheduled.
- The "Promotion" section details that both the cancellation of the North American tour and the rescheduling of the UK and European tours were due to injuries.
- I think that's what it is saying there, any suggestions? dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
- I think that the "due to injuries" part could be placed toward the end of the sentence for clarity. As it reads now, the sentence supposes that only the cancellations were due to injuries, which is actually true of both the cancelled and rescheduled dates. When I read that tour dates were cancelled for injuries (with no context given about who was injured or why), I think of the Astroworld Festival crowd crush, but obviously that isn't the case here. It could instead read, "The Tyla Tour was announced, which included dates later cancelled or rescheduled due to an undisclosed injury Tyla sustained."
- Done dxneo (talk) 02:18, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- I think that the "due to injuries" part could be placed toward the end of the sentence for clarity. As it reads now, the sentence supposes that only the cancellations were due to injuries, which is actually true of both the cancelled and rescheduled dates. When I read that tour dates were cancelled for injuries (with no context given about who was injured or why), I think of the Astroworld Festival crowd crush, but obviously that isn't the case here. It could instead read, "The Tyla Tour was announced, which included dates later cancelled or rescheduled due to an undisclosed injury Tyla sustained."
- I think that's what it is saying there, any suggestions? dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
- Target is the retailer, I'm assuming. It appears 8 times in the readable text, including citations, but the name is never wikilinked.
- I could not find a Wikipedia page and looking at other articles, I'm assuming there isn't any. dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
- Target Corporation is the article you're looking for. — Paper Luigi T • C 08:05, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- Done dxneo (talk) 02:18, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- Target Corporation is the article you're looking for. — Paper Luigi T • C 08:05, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- I could not find a Wikipedia page and looking at other articles, I'm assuming there isn't any. dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
- Epic Records is wikilinked in the body but not the lead.
- It is, always has been. dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
To promote the record, she hosted pop-up shows in several counties including England and Japan, and she made live performances in multiple countries also.
- "Several", "multiple", and "also" don't contribute much. The word "counties" appears, but I'm sure this is a typo that should read "countries". England is not a country; it is part of the UK. This portion could be rewritten as "Tyla promoted the record by hosting pop-up shows and live performances in countries such as the UK and Japan."
- Done dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
- In the third paragraph,
Billboard 200
is prefaced byU.S.
, but in the paragraph before this,Billboard Hot 100
is not.
- Done dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
Background and release
The Japanese version was released on 7 August 2024 by Sony Music Entertainment Japan.
- The wikilink to special edition seems misleading and unnecessary.
- Please explain how and why? dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
- As a reader, I expected to be directed to an article or a section of an article that had further detail about the Japanese version of this album. Instead, I was brought to the Special edition article, which disappointingly has no mention of Tyla or Japan.
- Done dxneo (talk) 02:18, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- As a reader, I expected to be directed to an article or a section of an article that had further detail about the Japanese version of this album. Instead, I was brought to the Special edition article, which disappointingly has no mention of Tyla or Japan.
- Please explain how and why? dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
Tyla was originally scheduled for release on 1 March 2024,[14] she had extended the album-submission date to work with the Nigerian singer Tems on the song "No.1",[15] the album was released on 22 March that year[16] by FAX Records and Epic Records,[17] in South Africa by Sony Music South Africa,[18] and by Since '93 and RCA Records in the United Kingdom.
- This needs to be divided into multiple sentences.
- Done dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
Composition and lyrics
In "Water", Tyla sings about a woman's longing to feel a squirting climax.
- The cited source states that "fans online" offer this as "a theory", a concept which "Travis Scott didn't lean into".
- Suggestion? I mean, multiple sources do say that's the meaning behind it. dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
- Please include a better source here. Only the one source is cited for the lyrical meaning, and that source's credit for that interpretation being to "fans online" is vague and unreliable. I suggest at least rewording this sentence to reflect that the song meaning is not official (unless you have a source that credits this meaning to its singer/songwriting personnel or someone with close proximity).
- On the subject of fan-speculation for intended lyrical meanings, I thought of "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds", which fans have noted for decades that its themes and title could be a reference to LSD. The song's article includes these postulations but clearly states that they are rumors, which John Lennon denied. The quote about "Water" as it reads now doesn't leave any room for nuance or interpretation but instead presents the suggested meaning as absolute. — Paper Luigi T • C 08:05, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- Done dxneo (talk) 02:18, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- Suggestion? I mean, multiple sources do say that's the meaning behind it. dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
Promotion
The UK and European leg of the tour
- The Tyla Tour article lists only one concert date in the UK, which is part of Europe.
- I don't know what you mean, but I like to take reference from the sources. dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
- Only the first source (#52) calls it the "UK and European leg of the tour". The UK is part of Europe, and the single London tour date is not significant enough for this bit to read like the UK is separate from Europe (even the Tyla Tour article groups them together). It would be equally striking to say that an artist cancelled her Hawaii and United States tour. I think that taking out the "UK and" words would make this less ambiguous. — Paper Luigi T • C 08:05, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- I really hate going against the sources, so here's one, two and three just to mention a few, and it's also UK & Europe on her IG post when she announced the cancellation and postponement. dxneo (talk) 02:18, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- I see that those sources use that phrasing, but as a reader of an encyclopedia, the separating of the UK and Europe in this context does not make sense to me. The only way this would make sense is if this leg of the tour was written as a proper noun by itself (i.e. using "UK & Europe" instead of "UK and European"). — Paper Luigi T • C 08:42, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- Done dxneo (talk) 10:39, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- I see that those sources use that phrasing, but as a reader of an encyclopedia, the separating of the UK and Europe in this context does not make sense to me. The only way this would make sense is if this leg of the tour was written as a proper noun by itself (i.e. using "UK & Europe" instead of "UK and European"). — Paper Luigi T • C 08:42, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- I really hate going against the sources, so here's one, two and three just to mention a few, and it's also UK & Europe on her IG post when she announced the cancellation and postponement. dxneo (talk) 02:18, 29 September 2024 (UTC)
- Only the first source (#52) calls it the "UK and European leg of the tour". The UK is part of Europe, and the single London tour date is not significant enough for this bit to read like the UK is separate from Europe (even the Tyla Tour article groups them together). It would be equally striking to say that an artist cancelled her Hawaii and United States tour. I think that taking out the "UK and" words would make this less ambiguous. — Paper Luigi T • C 08:05, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
- I don't know what you mean, but I like to take reference from the sources. dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
Critical reception
Writing for Rolling Stone, Will Hermes writes
- There's redundancy here.
- Done dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
I'm not familiar with the article's subject, but maybe there's some value in my observations. I didn't make it through the entire article because there were too many issues with it. — Paper Luigi T • C 06:47, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
- Two reviewers before you said it was actually in good shape. However, if you say so, then I'll wait for you to raise more concerning issues Thank you so much. You are appreciated. dxneo (talk) 08:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)