Wikipedia:Peer review/Ultralight Beam/archive1

Ultralight Beam

Hi everyone. I brought this article to GA back in 2018. It recently underwent a much-needed copyedit and after an FAC run with barely any feedback, it's been suggested I bring it to PR. I'm new to the FAC process so any help would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance :-) – zmbro _(talk) 21:41, 21 December 2019 (UTC)

Comments from Aoba47

• The first sentence of the lead, specifically the "released as the opening track", reads a little awkwardly to me. I would instead use a structure, possibly something similar to the "Missing My Baby" article which is a featured article on a non-single album track like this one, to instead say something like the following: "Ultralight Beam" is a song by American hip hop artist Kanye West from his seventh studio album The Life of Pablo (2016). I do not think the song's placement on the actual album is important enough to mention in the lead's first sentence.
• I do not believe "including these musicians" is needed for this sentence "It was first performed live, including these musicians, on Saturday Night Live in February 2016." as I would assume that all of the musicians would be performing as they are part of the original track unless it is mentioned otherwise.
• I am a little confused by this part "singer The-Dream, R&B singer Kelly Price", specifically on why you identify Price's musical style and not The-Dream and The-Dream has released R&B music too. Maybe something like this would be better: The song features vocals by R&B singers The-Dream and Kelly Price, rapper...".
• Would it be possible to paraphrase the Watkins' quote in the lead? It is just a little odd to me to see a single quote and citation in the lead.
• I would condense this part "The song's opening is a clip taken from a video uploaded to the social media" to something like the following: The song's opening is taken from a video uploaded to the social media. I think a reader would understand from context that the song is only using a portion of the video and not the entire thing.
• For this part "Chance the Rapper was singled out consistently with praise for his performance", I do not think "consistently" is needed.
• The "but failed to win" part is not necessary in this sentence "The song was nominated but failed to win the Grammy Award for Best Rap/Sung Performance and Best Rap Song at the 59th Annual Grammy Awards in 2017." because that can be assumed by saying the song was just nominated for an award.
• Items should be linked in the body of the article when they are first mentioned, like Derek Watkins, Chance the Rapper, Kanye West, Swizz Beatz, etc.
• I am uncertain about "the latter" in this sentence "According to Watkins, many of the latter's patterns and words during the freestyle ended up in his final verse.". I agree with this essay that the former/latter language is not necessary ideal.
• Is it entirely necessary to specify that this part "In a separate interview, producers Samo Sound Boy and DJ Dodger Stadium (DJDS)" was done in a "separate interview". I think that could already be understand in context, particularly with the paragraph break, with that portion.
• For this part "credited as both writer and producer", I would say "credited as both a writer and producer" since he is one of many writers and producers for the song.
• For this part "In the video she says", I believe there should be a comma after "video".
• I am uncertain about this sentence "The clip is used as the song's intro." I think it may be better to include this information in this part "The song has one official sample credit," by adding "has one official sample credit in its intro". It is a little odd to wait until a later sentence to mention where the sample is in the song and the rather short sentence seems a little out-of-place.
• What happened with the lawsuit with Natalie Green's parents? Any updates?
• I would link Instagram in the lead and the body of the article.
• I would avoid repeating "film" twice in this sentence: "He also comments on Spike Lee's film Chi-Raq (2015), a film whose premise he has openly spoken out against." Also, does the source mention what these comments are?
• I would avoid using "the artists" in this sentence "The artists who performed on the track have spoken about the song's meaning" per this essay.
• I would add more to the audio sample's caption to justify its inclusion in the article. It is important to clearly demonstrate why non-free media is used in an article, particularly on the FAC level.
• I have received the following note in my FACs and have frequently seen it in others. For this part ", with many commenting on Chance the Rapper's verse", I would avoid the "with x verb-ing" structure as that seems to be discouraged on the FAC level. I do not have a particularly strong feeling about it either way, but just wanted to give you a heads-up. These parts, "with Chance the Rapper's verse and vocals being singled out for praise" and "the song, with it being produced by West", are other examples of this from the article.
• I am not certain why "in particular" is needed in this sentence: "Price, in particular, has praised the performance because of her "spiritual connection" to the song."
• I would remove this part, "with Chance the Rapper's verse and vocals being singled out for praise.", from the lead sentence of the "Critical reception" section as it seems to set up a paragraph or sentences about this praise for Chance the Rapper, but that is addressed primarily in the second paragraph instead.
• A lot of the first paragraph of the "Critical reception" section is quotes so I would careful of Wikipedia:Quote farm.
• For this sentence, "G-Eazy and Carnage moshed with a fan to the song when West performed it live on October 29, 2016, in Las Vegas on the Saint Pablo Tour", I would link moshed.
• I have a question about this sentence: "A reinterpretation of the song, produced by West, was released by the Sunday Service Choir in 2019." How is a "reinterpretation" different from a cover?
• Where is the part about the song being recorded between 2015 and 2016 sourced in the article? It is in the infobox, but I do not see it explicitly said in the body of the article.
• I am uncertain about the Kelly Price part in the "Critical reception" section's first paragraph. I would imagine that this section is primarily restricted to critical opinions on the song so including Price does not seem to fit here as she is a part of the song. Maybe this would be a better fit for an earlier section instead?

Although I am currently semi-retired from Wikipedia, I felt bad that this peer review has not received any attention so far, particularly after the FAC only received an image review. These are things that I noticed while doing a quick, first read-through of the article. I must admit that I have never heard of this song before reading the article. I used to be a fan of Kanye up until 808s & Heartbreak, but his activity outside of music has really turned me away from him and I have not heard any of his music since then. That could be a good thing for this review though as I am a completely unfamiliar reader on this subject. I hope this helps at least a little bit, and hopefully, this will attract more reviewers. Aoba47 (talk) 22:44, 10 January 2020 (UTC)

Aoba47 Sorry for the late response but thank you so much for the input. I've used it greatly and really appreciate it. Since your comments, another editor has made some more additions and I would love to know your thoughts on those. He has a very different writing style than mine, which sometimes interferes with how I see things, but that's the nature of the encyclopedia. West's life outside of music, especially in the 2010s, has turned a lot of people away, but MBDTF, Yeezus, and TLoP are all among his best work. You should check them out when you get a chance. Again, thanks for the input. You've really been a massive help to me, with all your reviews at my FLCs and for giving me my first GA. I hope to hear more from you soon. :-) – zmbro _(talk) 00:07, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

• I am glad that I can help! I completely understand what you mean. In my opinion, Wikipedia is at its best when it is a space for collaboration and discussion, but it can be quite weird to work with an editor with a different writing style and overall approach. There are minor parts that could be addressed further – the reference in the lead and building up the caption from the audio – but otherwise, the overall article looks good to me. You have definitely encouraged me to check out his music in the near future. I mostly listen to female rap tbh, but Kanye has definitely made a huge and undeniable impact on music. Good luck with the article, and hopefully, the next FAC will go better. Have you tried the FAC mentoring program? That could help with the article and a future FAC. Aoba47 (talk) 01:37, 15 January 2020 (UTC)