Wikipedia:Peer review/Vietnam Airlines/archive1

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I've listed this article for peer review because I have been editing the article for around a month and so I would like to know how well I have been doing my job. I'd like to know what other information I should add to the article to further improve it; it might be those on maintenance, financial standing, fleet, destinations, history, etc. I hope that many people will pay attention to this message, and, maybe, spend a few minutes reviewing the article. I would like to thank those who will be reviewing this page, I appreciate it. Thanks, Sp33dyphil 05:39, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Benny the mascot Doing... Benny the mascot (talk) 19:48, 13 March 2010 (UTC) Apologies for the delay. It seems that you have a lot of referencing issues to take care of. Several sections are marked with referencing banners, and the maintenance section has a copyvio banner. I would take care of those first, but remember that you must use reliable sources. Websites like facebook are simply unreliable. Also, it might be helpful to use some citation templates.[reply]

Furthermore, you have a few sections that need expanding. I admit that I haven't taken a detailed look at the sections you mentioned, but I'm going to post some additional comments soon. I just wanted to make sure you have some feedback to respond to at this moment. Benny the mascot (talk) 23:48, 15 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Excellent work so far! I'm glad to see that so much effort has been put into this article. A few comments:

YYour discussion of the company history has a huge gap between 1996 and 2007. Did anything significant happen within that time period?
Doing...While your citations certainly have improved, large chunks of text still go unsourced. Benny the mascot (talk) 22:58, 16 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

more coming...

Comments by H1nkles

Y In the lead there is the comment that during the months of October and November it will be the carrier for the Miss World pageant. What year is that?
Please check through the article for tense agreement. Sometimes it's past tense, other times it's in present tense. Here's an example:

"During that year, the airline was known as General Department of Civil Aviation in Vietnam,[15] and began full operations, carrying around 21,000 passengers, of which one-third are on international flights and 3,000 tonnes of cargo"

The context is a history of the airline so past tense is appropriate. Then comes, "...of which one-third are on international flights...." Are should be "were". This is one of several examples.

Watch one and two sentence paragraphs. These should be expanded or combined.
Y "code-share agreements"? What are code share agreements? This should be explained in the article.
The first two sentences in the Passengers section are a repeat of earlier information, should be removed.
Y Some things to consider when wikilinking (see WP:LINK for more information):

Y Don't link terms used in common English like, crash, destination, airport, aviation, and maintenance to name a few. I fixed some but others need to be addressed. If there is a specific crash that you want to refer to then it is fine to link the article for that crash to the word "crash" but linking generic articles about these words is unnecessary.
Y It is ok to link the word in the lead and then once, or perhaps twice in the body of the article, depending on the article. The word Boeing is linked at least 6 times in the article. That's not necessary. Also there are links to several different types of planes, each one can be linked once or twice, more than that isn't necessary.
The first mention of the linked word should be linked, don't skip it but link the same word later in the article.

Y Make sure your numbers are right, "The airline ordered four Boeing 777-200ERs, to be delivered in 2003, under a list price of US$680 (2003)." I'm sure it's more than $680.
Sections for expansion: In-flight services (there's more than just movies right?), Incidents and accidents (give some specifics, in a summary style, of each fatal accident). What about terrorism? Has the airline experienced that at all?
I agree with Benny the mascot about the sourcing. Here are my recommendations regarding the sourcing:

Use a {{cite web}} template.
Read WP:CITE for information on how to properly cite an article.
Y Per Benny the mascot, Facebook and most blogs are usually not considered credible, please replace these.
Read Biman Bangladesh Airlines. This article is a Featured Article, an example of some of our best content. It conforms with all MOS requirements and is considered comprehensive. This article will give you a guide on how to cite your article and what format to use. More on this article later.
Y Usually in-line citations come at the end of a sentence or a paragraph. Sometimes after a comma and very rarely are they dropped right in the middle of a sentence. This is for flow and readability, please consider moving in-line citations like in this sentence, "In September 2005, Vietnam Airlines ordered eight Boeing 787-8 aircraft[22] to be delivered from 2009,[23] and 10 Airbus A321-200 for deliveries starting from the same year; however, due to the delays of the Boeing 787, Vietnam Airlines will acquire its state-of-the art Boeing 787-8's soon after Boeing completes its test." to the end of the sentence.

Overarching comments:

Doing... As I stated earlier, please read the Biman Bangladesh Airlines article. It is an article about an airline that will be an excellent guide for you. It covers all the important topics that should be covered in this article. It also gives you a format for references, tables, and tells you what kind of images you need to have. Keep in mind that this is a featured article and don't feel like you have to get it to this level (unless of course you have visions of getting this article to FA standing).
The article will need a thorough copy-edit. There are several grammatical errors that crop up in the writing.
The images are a bit uninspiring. Five photos of airplanes is ok but not great. Consider searching through Commons for free-use images. If you want to upload some of your own be sure they conform with WP:IMAGE guidelines.
Doing... One of the biggest issues is the citations, which is why there are all the tags all over the article. Getting the citations cleaned up will be a huge step in improving this article.

That's it for me, if you want to discuss specifics from this review please give me a poke on my talk page and I'll be happy to talk about it. Happy editing. H1nkles _{citius altius fortius} 18:06, 19 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Messages from Sp33dyphil

Is it OK if H1nkles tidy up all the references found on the page, while Benny the mascot fact-checks? thank you.

Doing...If anyone would like to see what I am up to relating to the improvement of the article Vietnam Airlines, please visit User:Sp33dyphil/My sandbox‎.

You already have suggestions on how you can improve the article. I think you should work on those issues first, then I'd be willing to take another look. Benny the mascot (talk) 11:27, 24 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Second review by H1nkles

Sp33dyphil asked for a second look at the article. This review will look at some of the issues brought up in my first review to determine progress.
Lead

"The maintenance and overhauling of aircraft is handled by Vietnam Air Service Company (VAECO), while Noibai Catering Services Join-Stock Company caters other airlines using the airport for Vietnam Airlines."

This sentence in the lead is poorly worded and a bit confusing. First off you use the term "maintenance and overhauling" in the previous sentence, could another term be used in this one to vary the writing a bit? Second what is the airport for Vietnam airlines? It appears from the first paragraph in the lead that there are two hubs for the airline, is that correct? If so you'll need to specify which one houses this subsidiary.

I removed the ref improved tag from the top of the article as I can clearly see that a lot of work has been done on the references. There are a couple of sections that need work in this area but overall I feel that the article has significantly improved to the point that the ref tag is no longer needed.
Y I made some prose improvements in the lead. Check them out and see if they still jive with the information in the article. More to come. H1nkles _{citius altius fortius} 15:27, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
There are still one sentence paragraphs, these need to be expanded or combined with other paras.
Y You need to use templates for your in-line citations. See WP:CITE for information on this. A good template for website citations is {{cite web}}. Please use templates to format all of your in-line citations, because right now the article does not have a real coherent citation format.
Doing... Can the Destinations section get expanded? Does VA fly to North America at all? The section just seems a bit sparse.
I would remove the lists in the Cargo and Retired section. See WP:LIST for more information on using lists. Usually one or two lists at the end of the article are fine, more than that is frowned upon. Fold them into prose instead.
I like the images, adding interior and food images is a great idea. Keep it up.
Y There are ref tags on Training and Maintenance sections. The Training section has one in-line citation and the Maintenance section has none, this needs to be improved.

References

Y You still have at least one reference to a facebook page, Facebook is not an acceptable reference in WP.
YFormatting of the references needs to be consistent, see above.

Overall

You're making great progress. Keep working on the issues I've raised above and you should probably get a copy edit done.

Keep up the good work you're on your way! H1nkles _{citius altius fortius} 23:51, 29 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by SynergyStar

Greetings, and good job on improving the article! I also received the request for input. Looking at the history, it has improved considerably in the past months. I read the article and made a few small edits for spacing and capitalization, and added a picture. A few more suggestions (and I realize this is hard work):

More copy-editing would help, suggestions:
- YLead: "....is the national flag carrier of Vietnam, and was established as a state enterprise in April 1989. It has its headquarters..." => ...is the national flag carrier of Vietnam. It was established as a state enterprise in April 1989, and has its headquarters..." (sentence length)
- History: "It’s first international destination" => Its first...(apostrophe)
- Y Fleet: "In December, 2001, Vietnam Airlines signed a historic agreement between them and Boeing" => "Vietnam Airlines signed a historic agreement with Boeing" (simplify)

YHistory section ends after 1996; there are references for later dates in the fleet section, maybe some context and what has happened since then could be added.
Cargo fleet...based on the source and lead VN does not have 777Fs or A330Fs (especially since the A330F is in design/test phase); it actually uses its passenger 777s, A330s etc for belly cargo space.

Some editors came along and added ss to the name

Miss World pageant, relevant info, but maybe it fits better in History rather than lead.

Keep up the good work! Regards, SynergyStar (talk) 02:26, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your quality input. Happy Easter - maybe that's a bit too late :) Sp33dyphil 03:01, 5 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]