Wikipedia:Peer review/William McAndrew/archive1

William McAndrew

I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to enhance the article to reach featured-article quality

Thanks, SecretName101 (talk) 19:16, 16 April 2022 (UTC)

STANDARD NOTE: I have added this PR to the Template:FAC peer review sidebar to get quicker and more responses. When this PR is closed, please remove it from the list. Also, consider adding the sidebar to your userpage to help others discover pre-FAC PRs, and please review other articles in that template.

Since you are still working on nominating your first FA, I would suggest seeking a FA mentor. They can comment on this PR and guide you through the FAC process. Z1720 (talk) 18:19, 17 April 2022 (UTC)

@SecretName101: This PR has been open for over a month. Are you still interested in receiving comments? If so, I suggest seeking a FA mentor or asking for feedback on applicable Wikiprojects. Z1720 (talk) 15:08, 25 May 2022 (UTC)

I will see if I can get a FA mentor. SecretName101 (talk) 20:57, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

Comments from Z1720

@SecretName101: I am going to do a quick pass for this article. Before this article is nominated again, I highly recommend that you review at least 5 articles on FAC. This will help you get to know the FAC process and build goodwill among editors, making them more likely to review your work.

My comments here are more detailed than what I would give in a FAC. This is because I hope you will apply these comments to other areas of the article.

Lede

• "After McAndrew was appointed Superintendent of Chicago Public Schools in 1924, he made numerous reforms," -> "McAndrew made numerous reforms to Chicago Public Schools" It was already mentioned twice in the previous paragraph that he was superintendent so I don't think it needs to be stated a third time.
• "strict rules he put in place governing teachers." -> "and strict rules in governing teachers." to tighten up the language

Early life

• "He first studied at Michigan State Normal School, before entering the University of Michigan," -> "He studied at Michigan State Normal School before entering the University of Michigan" removed unnecessary "first" and comma
• "McAndrew would later return to Michigan State Normal School to receive his Master of Education in 1916." -> "McAndrew returned to Michigan State Normal School to receive his Master of Education in 1916." To tighten up the language
• "from 1886 through 1887." -> "from 1886 to 1887."

Early career

• "He left St. Clair and moved to Chicago, becoming one of the first five teachers at the new Hyde Park High School in 1888, eventually becoming the school principal a year later." -> "He moved to Chicago and became one of the first five teachers at the new Hyde Park High School in 1888 and promoted to the school principal a year later." Removes leaving St. Clair (if he moved to somewhere, it is logical that he moved away from the previous location), removed two "becoming" words, and tightened up the language.
• "Superintendent George Howland had ordered McAndrew to certify the diploma," Delete had
• "Disillusioned, he left the field of education" -> "McAndrew left the field of education" The reader can assume that McAndrew is disillusioned after being fired and leaving education, so I don't think that word is necessary. Every new paragraph should reintroduce the subject before using pronouns.

New York City Public Schools

• "McAndrew helped to organize" Delete to
• "defeat a large number of other candidates." How many candidates? Be specific
• "and one of the leading all-girls schools in the United States." leading in what? This statement is too ambiguous and needs to be more specific.
• "On October 28, 1914, McAndrew was promoted to one of eight seats on the Board of Associate Superintendents of the New York City Board of Education.[8][9][27][24][29][30][31]" Are 7 citations really necessary for this statement? I suggest picking the best three, at the most (although I don't think this statement is controversial enough to warrant more than one citation). Also, ensure that references are in numerical order.
• "along with several other candidates for the position." How many candidates? Be specific.
• "While the president of the board, Thomas W. Churchill, supported McAndrew for the position, it took the board ten ballots to elect McAndrew, with McAndrew defeating the front-runner, Brooklyn District Superintendent Charles W. Lyon, along with several other candidates for the position.[30] McAndrew's selection was opposed by New York City Mayor John Purroy Mitchel." Put the support/opposition statements in the first sentence, then the outcome of the race in the second.
• "During the selection process, most of the eleven other candidates submitted their own applications for the job, but McAndrew did not seek the office himself." I think this should be mentioned before the outcome sentence.
• " Among the tasks assigned to McAndrew at various points on the job was overseeing the city's "new-program" schools, overseeing the city's "duplicate and intermediate" schools, and overseeing the Division No. 1 elementary schools." Too much redundancy of the word "overseeing". Try using synonyms.
• "McAndrew's name was floated as a prospective replacement for outgoing New York state deputy commissioner of education Thomas E. Finegan," Replace floated with proposed, as floated might be considered an MOS:IDIOM and not as easily understood to non-native English readers.
• "By the end of his tenure, McAndrew had come into conflict with the Tammany Hall-aligned majority that sat on the Board of Education." This needs to be expanded upon, with context given of who these people are and why there was conflict. As someone completely unfamiliar with this person or topic, I was confused why he was unanimously selected but then coming into conflict with others.
• "that sat on the Board of Education.[25][23]" References should be in numerical order.

Superintendent of Chicago Public Schools

• "McAndrew served as superintendent of Chicago Public Schools from 1924 through 1927. He would attract national attention in this role, becoming one of the best-known educators in the United States.[8]" I don't think this sentence is necessary. The information in this section will explain this in better detail, so this is redundant.
• "The school board, recomposed by Dever's appointments," The previous paragraph explained that Dever appointed 7 people, so I don't think we need to restate that the board was recomposed by Dever here.
• "unanimous vote of support.[1][41][39]" Refs in numerical order
• " making him, perhaps, one of the highest-paid educators in the United States at the time." This feels like a weird statement. How can he possibly be one of the highest paid? Why is this in doubt?
• "principal Bogan.[15][1][44]" Ref order. There's a couple more instances of this further into the article, but I'm not going to post them here. I trust that they will be found.
• "but the new changes angered some teachers and politicians." Delete "the new changes", it was already stated that these were changes earlier in the sentence.

• "It began by recommending significant reforms," -> "It recommended significant reforms"
• "such as using the service center concept of schooling," What is a service center concept of schooling? If this is important enough to include, it will need to be explained.
• "taking teachers to task for any inefficiency reported by this system." -> "disciplining teachers for inefficiency reported by this system" to remove an idiom
• "Along these lines, McAndrew created a curriculum" I think this paragraph should be combined with the previous one, as it is all talking about business.
• "McAndrew also believed it was important to instill social efficiency in students." Delete also as unnecessary.
• "This lack of communication gave birth to strong suspicions" -> "This lack of communication caused strong suspicions" to remove an idiom
• "opened their doors in September 1924." Delete their doors
• "McAndrew advocated for an increase in the salaries of teachers from the beginning of his tenure as superintendent." I would move this sentence to later in the paragraph, after "cost of living" to keep things chronological.
• "Margaret Haley and her Chicago Federation of Teachers" Why is the organisation hers? What position did she have in the organisation?
• "would instead benefit from substantial raises." Delete instead
• "After the failure of Miller’s bill, the board, at McAndrew's urging, tried again, adopting a similar rule, known as the "Emeritus Rule", on December 9, 1925." Too many commas. Reword.
• "The law proposed that no teacher over seventy, except the superintendent, was to be employed in the Chicago Public Schools." If the number 70 is used in the previous paragraph, then this should also be the number.
• "The Chicago Federation of Labor stood in strong opposition to the Emeritus Rule, and it faced many legal challenges.[85][83][84][86][87][88]" Are this many citations needed here?
• Construction of new school buildings, Restructuring of administrative structure, and National Education Association work suffer from WP:OVERSECTION. These shorter sections should be merged, removed, or expanded upon.

I'm going to pause there, because this is a lot and I hope that you will review the rest of the article for some of the same problems I outlined above. Please ping me when ready for more comments. Z1720 (talk) 01:50, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

@Z1720:, I want to extend my gratitude to you for dedicating time to reviewing this article. I greatly appreciate it. Best regards SecretName101 (talk) 01:20, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

@SecretName101: Are you still planning on working on this article? Have you finished working on the above comments? Z1720 (talk) 14:32, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

I’m planning to resume overseeing changes, but I believe I addressed a great bulk of these SecretName101 (talk) 23:41, 27 August 2022 (UTC)

Please ping me when you are finished the above comments and I'll continue. Z1720 (talk) 00:11, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

@Z1720: With the exception of remedying the citation order (I have fixed some instances, not sure that I fixed all) and some of the overcite instances, I believe I addressed nearly all the concerns you listed (and I apologize if I missed any). SecretName101 (talk) 15:15, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

@Z1720: No rush, as I understand life and other matters get busy for all of us. Just curious for an update as to whether you still intend to give further comments on the article. SecretName101 (talk) 19:08, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

@SecretName101: Sorry I have not responded sooner, real life has been busy. I will leave more comments when I have more time. Please ping me again if I do not repond within two weeks. Z1720 (talk) 14:40, 16 September 2022 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay with this. Continuing with comments below:

• "Among McAndrews' successes" Should be McAndrew's
• "Critics and opportunists took advantage of these political tensions, alleging American textbooks contained "pro-British" and "unamerican" bias.[112][113][114][115][116]" Are 5 citations necessary for this sentence?
• ""city school systems…had ejected political influence from promotions, choices of sites and textbooks and improved their services." is there a closing quotation mark missing?
• That same day, by a 6–5 vote, the board voted to suspend McAndrew, charging him with insubordination pending a public administrative hearing to be held before the board to decide whether McAndrew should be removed from office.[62][130][131][132][133][134] Are this many citations necessary?
• "Additionally, in January 1928, McAndrew was hired as editor of histories for The Century Company." I don't think additionally is needed here, and can be removed.
• Ref 113: Title is incorrect.
• Suggest adding ALT text to images, per MOS:ALT
• In image captions, sometimes the circa template is used, and sometimes not. This should be standardised (and I suggest the template).

Sorry again for the delay in finishing this up, but those are my comments. Z1720 (talk) 01:50, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

@Z1720: No hard feelings in regards to the delay. I completely understand that life gets busy and priorities take up our time. Thank you so much for your comments! SecretName101 (talk) 18:50, 28 September 2022 (UTC)

@SecretName101: It has been over a month since the last comment on this PR. Are you still looking for comments for this? If so, I suggest asking for reviewers at Wikiprojects attached to this article. If not, can you close this? Z1720 (talk) 23:03, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

@Z1720: I'll see if others want to provide input. How would I proceed to close this, though? SecretName101 (talk) 02:59, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Comments from John M Wolfson

• [Note: This was originally in the main talkpage, but I have copypasted it here with some modifications] @SecretName101: I have done some copyediting, and strongly suggest that you take this to the Guild of Copyediting for a refactor before taking this to FAC; among other things for future reference be a bit more cautious about linking common terms unless directly relevant, and don't forget geocommas and datecommas. That said, I have these other questions, although I don't intend for this to become a formal peer review in place of other comments.
  • How did McAndrew first come to New York? His move from St. Paul to New York is never explained. It's fine if you don't know.
  • [Irving] was regarded as a leading institution among all-girls schools in the United States. Irving is not explained to be an all-girls school in its introduction.
  • However, McAndrew declined the position. Any reason why?
  • Be wary of duplicate links in an article.
  • I notice some book sources are not fully in short form; this should be rectified for consistency

This is not exhaustive, but should help. This is a good article, but not quite up to FA standards at this point. On my end, I have an FAC of my own right now for the "L"'s Lake Street Transfer station that I think you would like and that would need more participation. Thanks! – John M Wolfson (talk • contribs) 13:30, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

@SecretName101: to ensure that they saw the above. Z1720 (talk) 02:00, 28 December 2022 (UTC)

Thank you, will get to implementing whatever I have not already. SecretName101 (talk) 03:26, 10 January 2023 (UTC)

@SecretName101: This has been open for almost a year, with no comments since November. Can this be closed now? If not, can you message Wikiprojects and editors that you want to comment on this? Thanks. Z1720 (talk) 03:19, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

There hasn't been a response in two weeks, so I am going to close this. Z1720 (talk) 13:43, 14 April 2023 (UTC)