Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Women in Red/Archive 19
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BBC 100 Women
New campaign - BBC 100 Women
- Official website
- En-wiki article: 100 Women (BBC)
- GLAM page (being moved to Meta): Wikipedia:GLAM/BBC's 100 Women
- Women in Red meetup page: Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Meetup/29
New campaign - BBC 100 Women
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Hello all, Maria Cruz (Communications and Outreach Coordinator, L&E Team, WMF) and I are coordinating an international campaign with Lucy Crompton-Reid (CE WMUK) and Ahmen Khawaja (BBC), during the period of 21 Nov 16 through 8 Dec 16 for BBC 100 Women. Components to this campaign include:
Where does WiR fit in?
Thoughts? Suggestions? Comments? Ideas? Where do we go from here? --Rosiestep (talk) 19:54, 7 November 2016 (UTC)
I have something in mind Ipigott, and quite the opposite of losing sight of the WIR goal, it would strongly reinforce it. Long term I agree though on perhaps a bot being needed to list articles on both the regional challenges and WIR to avoid it getting complicated. I will do my best to get the challenges working in WIR's favour, not a distraction from it.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:45, 8 November 2016 (UTC)
I'll see what I can do, but without image releases by the BBC it can be very hard to find images that fit the Wikipedia requirements of free reuse, as none will have automatically passed to public domain from age. I can still do historic women, and, indeed, have some on the go, interrupted by a bad coldAdam Cuerden (talk) 05:15, 16 November 2016 (UTC)
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BBC missing bios
BBC missing bios
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@Rosiestep:, @Ipigott: etc, feel free to sort out the missing bios in 100 Women (BBC) by continent and add a section on the challenge pages advertising the BBC collaboration and encourage editors to create them. Feel free to also add some missing articles on women in the military for next month too to the pages, or links to the current wikidata lists etc. You'd be surprised that a few more articles would get contributed as some of the continent challenges have over 50 people signed up who might not normally work on women bios. I've started off a list on the Asian challenge page here, emboldening them might attract more editors to help the cause.♦ Dr. Blofeld 23:07, 23 November 2016 (UTC)
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BBC 100 Women redlink list
BBC 100 Women redlink list
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@Rosiestep, Megalibrarygirl, and Victuallers: I have compiled a list of redlinks for the four years covered by BBC 100 Women, arranged by continent and country. I think this will help people to work on the geographical area they wish to cover. I've included a link to the list on the Meetup/29 page but I don't know how to include it under our redlink lists as it does not fit into any of the existing slots. The list should also be useful for those working on the various challenges. For the record, the list now contains 211 names. It will be interesting to see how many are left on 9 December.--Ipigott (talk) 15:55, 26 November 2016 (UTC) Thanks, the problem is that a lot of the women have no info available for them and are only mentioned on the list.♦ Dr. Blofeld 15:57, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
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Slow down? request (en:BBC only)
Slow down? request (en:BBC only)
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I've been having conversations with WMUK who are the prime partners with the BBC for their editathons on December 8th. WMUK are concerned that WiR's enthusiasm will mean that there are few remaining "easy" biographies in English. Creating Wikidata entries, adding pictures to commons, and creating references is great work. They are requesting that we slow creation of new articles on en:wiki. I can see that is a difficult (and very late) message as its not clear what happens on December 9th. Women in Red have done a lot of amazing pre-work and its important that we get good value out of that work. I'm off to meet WMUK and the BBC today to understand their rationale. I hope to get, and bring you, a better understanding today. Victuallers (talk) 07:34, 30 November 2016 (UTC)
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More BBC 100 Women confusion
More BBC 100 Women confusion
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@Rosiestep and Victuallers: It now looks from this as if the Broadcasting House editathon is restricted to BBC staff. The page also refers to a non existant resources page for virtual participants but no mention of WiR. Is there any possibility of providing info on editathons/meetups in the UK which are open to outside participants?--Ipigott (talk) 17:37, 2 December 2016 (UTC)
Hi all, firstly I'm so sorry for any confusion over the BBC 100 Women partnership and the events this week. The many different partners involved - BBC, Wikimedia Foundation, Wikimedia UK, other Wikimedia chapters, user groups and communities around the world and of course, Women in Red - mean that the potential for duplication, lack of clarity etc has been high, for which I can only apologise. I hugely appreciate all the work that has been done by editors to find sources for 'missing' women, add and improve articles about the BBC's 100 Women from this and previous years and generally support the planning and preparation for the multi-location editathon this Thursday 8th December. In particular I wanted to thank Rosie and Roger who have been invaluable in different ways. Rosie has been completely central to bringing on board Wikimedia editors and communities around the world to hold their own events, while Roger has really helped our thinking in the UK and is going to be at the Broadcasting House event as one of the trainers. As Roger mentions, Wikimedia UK is liaising with the BBC over access for volunteers at the Broadcasting House editathon and the other events in the UK. Whilst these are primarily for BBC staff, presenters and other special guests, we are collating a small guest list of our own for the London event, so if you would like to attend, please email [email protected] and let her know which of the following times would be best for you: 2 – 4pm, 3 – 5pm, 4 – 6pm or 5 – 7pm. Nicola is liaising with the BBC over capacity and will confirm your space ASAP. Similarly, if you would like to attend the Cardiff, Reading (Caversham) or Glasgow events, email Nicola and we'll pass this onto the BBC teams in those locations. Thanks again and I'm looking forward to meeting some of you on 8th! LucyCrompton-Reid (WMUK) (talk) 14:40, 5 December 2016 (UTC) |
Wikipedia item on the BBC
Wikipedia item on the BBC
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In connection with BBC 100 Women, the BBC programme "Click" has included an item on Wikipedia and the related editathons. It is billed as: "100 Women Wikipedia Edit-a-thon project The BBC 100 Women 2016 project includes the question: is the internet sexist? On 8th December, 100 Women is joining up with Wikipedia to hold a 12 hour edit-a-thon, to intervene in that story of the place of women online. Click talks to the BBC’s Fiona Crack." The programme can be accessed here. The item on Wikipedia starts at 07.30.--Ipigott (talk) 08:35, 7 December 2016 (UTC) |
BBC invitation to join their virtual editathon
BBC invitation to join their virtual editathon
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Just up. BBC 100 Women 2016: Who are our forgotten women? Join our edit-a-thon.--Ipigott (talk) 08:43, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
Here are three Petscan queries which might help us quickly spot new women biographies:
I've been using variants of these for the last month or so in my wikidata endeavours ... they can take 2 or 3 minutes to return results. I'll make sure they're as empty as possible tonight so that we can see what's added tomorrow ... clearly they have a dependency on some minimal categorisation of the articles, and they'll not be of any use if contributors do add wikidata items, but I'm thinking that those users that do probably have enough of a clue not to need help, whereas newbies are most unlikely to even so much as know that wikidata exists, much less how to add an article to it. --Tagishsimon (talk) 11:33, 7 December 2016 (UTC) Special:RecentChangesLinked/100 Women (BBC) is probably worth watching — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 13:31, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
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BBC article problems
BBC 100 Women article problems
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I've been notified that the Istanbul edit-a-thon has encountered a problem. A user from Turkish wiki has requested for the BBC 100 Women entries in that language to be deleted using the template translated as: “The content of this page is not appropriate.” Example: https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meral_Akkent . I don't have any further information. Any assistance would be appreciated by the Istanbul editors. No worries if not possible. --Rosiestep (talk) 10:57, 8 December 2016 (UTC) My good friend CeeGee might be able to help with this.♦ Dr. Blofeld 11:51, 8 December 2016 (UTC) @Dr. Blofeld: Thank you for mentioning me. I would do my best, however, I really did not understand where the problem is (Article title). The said link points out to the Turkish Wikipedia, at which I'm not active at all. In case, I understood the matter correctly that the problem is at the tr:WP I call @Nedim Ardoğa: for help. Cheers. CeeGee 14:40, 11 December 2016 (UTC) @Rosiestep: What needs to be done exactly, the article restored?♦ Dr. Blofeld 14:46, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
AfD BBC 100 WomenLaura Coryton has been nominated for deletion. Yesterday the BBC named her as one of the Five women who aren't on Wikipedia but should be! Any help in improving the article would be appreciated. Eartha78 (talk) 23:47, 8 December 2016 (UTC) Rabia Salihu Sa'id has also been nominated for deletion. Joe Roe (talk) 17:46, 9 December 2016 (UTC) |
BBC broadcast on Wikipedia
BBC broadcast on Wikipedia
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In connection with the BBC 100 Women editathon on 8 December, there is an extensive discussion of Wikipedia and the problems of the gender gap in the latest episode of Science in Action.--Ipigott (talk) 07:54, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
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Summing up BBC 100 Women
This one does it quite well. But I'm not convinced they did better than A+F.--Ipigott (talk) 17:56, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
It's a very positive thing, but I do think it implied that it is only women writing articles about women on the site. It's very impressive to see this sort of publicity and people interested though. I hope the BBC continue to show an interest.♦ Dr. Blofeld 12:59, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- I've been trying to go through all the new articles and have already edited about half, trying to save a few from deletion but also including missing essnetials (categories, defaultsort, basic copy editing. I have identified about 100 which were added on 8 December. There were an impressive number from Nepal but also quite a few from India and Nigeria. Many of the articles require additional work. Maybe we should also be thinking of sending messages of encouragement to all the new editors involved? I'm afraid that up to now with all the problems on Wikidata, I have only been able to place a few standard "Welcome" templates on people's user pages.--Ipigott (talk) 15:25, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- I think we will have a bunch to go through in the coming days. I'm working on a piece, but I think maybe time will be better spent to edit and add RS to some of the already created articles to prevent a further onslaught of AfDs. SusunW (talk) 16:03, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
Follow-up to BBC 100 Women editathon
A couple of notes from some of the less obvious things I noted while following the editing activity related to the BBC 100 Women editathon. This won't be comprehensive, but I think I picked up a fair amount:
- A declined AfC draft at: Draft:Monica Dinosaurescu.
- A draft in userspace here: User:Smsarmad/Sheema Kirmani.
- A speedy deletion here: Wanjiru Kihusa.
I also went through this BBC Live Reporting page and the BBC 100 Women Instagram page and noted the following nominations that didn't result in any articles (the nominations that did not result in article creations arguably should be noted along with the article creations for any metrics relating to this event):
- Sirin Hamsho - details (nominated by BBC Arabic's Areej Zayat).
- Lucy Ann-Holmes - details (nominated by Helen Pankhurst).
- Imani Lansiquot or Imani-Lara Lansiquot - details (nominated by Daryll Neita).
- Rose Cannan wife of Dennis Cannan - details, possible source (nominated by BBC journalist Emily Maitlis).
That is what I've come up with so far. There may be more speedy deletions and declined or userspace drafts out there. Carcharoth (talk) 16:35, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks. I've added the nominations to appropriate redlists, so they'll persist for longer than this talk page. Good report, Carcharoth, thanks. --Tagishsimon (talk) 16:55, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- No problem. I am a bit mystified by the reports that a group of journalism students at Brunel did some editing. See here and here. I can't actually find what they did. Can anyone identify any articles or drafts anywhere? Carcharoth (talk) 16:56, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- The thread you pointed to - https://twitter.com/bruneljourno - has a bunch of photos of them holding signs which talk about the articles they wrote. So this guy to the left https://twitter.com/bruneljourno/status/806838690156834816 - did Loubna Mrie, for instance. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:04, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- Yeah, but I can't get to a photo where I can read what they wrote (and terrible handwriting as well!). Carcharoth (talk) 17:09, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- I also see Julie Dicaro & Caroline Hirons ... oh dear :( --17:13, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- I see, in total:
- Loubna Mrie
- Julie Dicaro
- Caroline Hirons
- Draft:Sarah Waiswa
- Diana Nammi
- Ray Elk
- Vanessa Sanyauke
- Lisa Kemmerer
- Melody Prochet
- Ingeborg Senneset
- Mariza Ikonomi (possibly Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mariza Ikonomi (3rd nomination) Carcharoth (talk))
- Flavia Steno - IT.wiki? [1]
- Martyna Wojciechowska
- Jody Day
- Una-Mary Parker
- Ella Ingram
- --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:33, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks! I added the drafts and the newly-created articles to the list. No idea why there are so many redlinks, unless the articles didn't actually get written. Carcharoth (talk) 18:19, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- Yeah, but I can't get to a photo where I can read what they wrote (and terrible handwriting as well!). Carcharoth (talk) 17:09, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- The thread you pointed to - https://twitter.com/bruneljourno - has a bunch of photos of them holding signs which talk about the articles they wrote. So this guy to the left https://twitter.com/bruneljourno/status/806838690156834816 - did Loubna Mrie, for instance. --Tagishsimon (talk) 17:04, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
Not en-Wikipedia, but I think it is worth highlighting this. It would be good to find out more about what happened there (Turkish Wikipedia, but that distinction is lost on many people). Can anyone locate the "discussion on the Wikipedia Turkish page"? Carcharoth (talk) 17:02, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
One more: Kayla Iacovino, mentioned here as 'joining the pages of Wikipedia', but as far as I can tell all that happened is that an artist drew here and Tweeted the picture. Hang on, there is a draft. Draft:Kayla Iacovino. Might want to check the draft namespace for some of the other redlinks as I may have been searching wrong. Carcharoth (talk) 17:07, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
The BBC Live Reporting page doesn't always get the spelling of the names right. They said 'Sarah Weir', but the draft is at Draft:Sara Weir. There also appears to have been a number of creations and edits done from a group from Harris Academy Bermondsey, with similar usernames: User:BBC100, BBC100WomenAccount, BBC100Womenuser, BBC100womenSCie (last year) User:BBC200, User:BBC300, User:BBC500, User:BBC700, User:BBC800, User:BBC900, User:BBC1000, User:BBC3000, etc. Someone may want to follow that up (first name and school may be too much personally identifying information?). Carcharoth (talk) 17:22, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
Confusingly, the BBC page reported BBC Hindi has just added Aditi Gupta who founded a website on menstrual health called menstrupedia.com, but both the Hindi page and the en-Wikipedia page (Additi Gupta) fail to mention this at all (unless the activist is different to the actress, not sure if the photos are of the same person?). And the Hindi page (hi:अदिति गुप्ता) doesn't appear to have been created on 8 December. A mystery. Carcharoth (talk) 17:38, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- Doh! Aditi Gupta (author) (the BBC journalist linked to the wrong page!). Carcharoth (talk) 17:44, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
Draft:Malka Puterkovsky and Draft:Tess Asplund. I'll create a section on the main page for the drafts. Carcharoth (talk) 17:43, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- Some great detective work here. I wonder to what extent we should be monitoring all the other languages here? It seems to be that for the time being we have more than enough to do on the EN articles. Maybe it's something for Meta?--Ipigott (talk) 17:51, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
Also found: Category:BBC 100 Women Edit-a-thon Nepal. (I assume people have noticed the debate raging at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2016_December_6#Category:BBC_100_Women?). Carcharoth (talk) 17:59, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
BBC 100 Women editathon article creation statistics
Some preliminary statistics relating to article creation on 8 December 2016, relating to the BBC 100 Women editathon, involving groups from all over the world in various locations. The current list here (as of 10 December 2016, may be incomplete) indicates that there were 158 articles created on en-Wikipedia (some created direct in mainspace, others submitted as drafts or articles for creation or moved from userspace or other drafts), of which 6 were speedily deleted, and the rest are presumably currently being reviewed by various processes. There are also 3 userspace drafts that haven't had any further action taken (i.e. not submitted to articles for creation), 1 userspace draft submitted and declined via AfC. There are also 10 drafts in the draft namespace. There were also 6 articles created on 7 December and 9 December that were arguably part of the whole article creation drive. That makes a total of 178 articles, with around 150 or so sitting in mainspace in various states, most needing more work done on them. There may be much more out there. The BBC report (not totally reliable, IMO, given the many obvious errors they make about Wikipedia) states that were "more than 400 new or updated profiles". I have no idea where they get that figure from, but they will be conflating updates to existing articles with article creations (a very unhelpful conflation) and also including article updates and article creations on other language Wikipedias. So unless someone want to go through the entire article creation list for 8 December, the figure above may be closest to 'the truth'. Carcharoth (talk) 20:57, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- An extra 8 found, so the total is now 166 (for the mainspace). And the total created by humans on 8 December was 1122 articles (see here). Nearly 15% of article creations. Carcharoth (talk) 23:01, 10 December 2016 (UTC) And a bit later, now looking like around 200 articles and drafts, maybe around 17% of article creations that day. Carcharoth (talk) 03:11, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
BBC 100 Women cleanup - many articles, several endangered
All of the articles created in the editathon period are listed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Women in Red/Meetup/29#Mainspace articles and environs. Many have issues of varying levels of fatality. If you can lend a hand towards squashing the issues and getting the Mainspace articles page to show only
, please do. thanks --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:30, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- I just added eight new ones (found here), plus Ethel Baxter earlier, for a total of nine new ones. Because they are alphabetised, it can be easy to miss ones that have not had an initial assessment. Also, the alphabtising got messed up. I suspect there are others out there that have not been found yet. Carcharoth (talk) 22:58, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- I'll sort through them. Keep dumping newbies at the foot of the list. I'll file them. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:00, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- One idea is to ask, or look at the contribs, of established users who were helping out, as they may be aware of more. Is there a way to generate a list of the users who created the articles? @Joe Roe: as he may know. Carcharoth (talk) 23:06, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- Here's all the users who created articles or drafts using the #100Womenwiki hashtag (so as you know not a complete list):
- One idea is to ask, or look at the contribs, of established users who were helping out, as they may be aware of more. Is there a way to generate a list of the users who created the articles? @Joe Roe: as he may know. Carcharoth (talk) 23:06, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- I'll sort through them. Keep dumping newbies at the foot of the list. I'll file them. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:00, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- And a list of all the editors who used the hashtag at all (same caveat):
- Not nearly as many as I expected, to be honest... Joe Roe (talk) 23:49, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you. That should help others (not me, I have other things to do) to follow up. Carcharoth (talk) 01:04, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- I've checked through the contributions of those on the List of #100Womenwiki article creators and found 5 or so new drafts & articles, two at AfD, one Prodded. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:53, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- And through all of the contributions of all in the List of all #100Womenwiki editors. several more articles added to the /29 mapge. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:27, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- Have you checked the articles were created on 8 December? Some of the established editors on that list created articles in November and before and after 8 December. I've put those articles up in the 'New or upgraded articles' section. Just moved one there now. Carcharoth (talk) 02:55, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- For the most part, yes to the 8th. --Tagishsimon (talk) 03:20, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- Have you checked the articles were created on 8 December? Some of the established editors on that list created articles in November and before and after 8 December. I've put those articles up in the 'New or upgraded articles' section. Just moved one there now. Carcharoth (talk) 02:55, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- And through all of the contributions of all in the List of all #100Womenwiki editors. several more articles added to the /29 mapge. --Tagishsimon (talk) 02:27, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- There would have been other new editors who didn't tick those particular boxes. For example, user:Abeshababe who created the article Furra . I know about her because she asked for some help after she had written a draft in her sandbox. There will have been other editors who didn't get to that point. I offered to help one who seemed to be struggling but she seemed to be too embarrassed or shy about showing her first faltering efforts. People give the impression that Wikipedia is or should be easy but it's really quite hard to get going. I have similar feelings about Facebook or Twitter, say, where I'm not too sure what I'm doing and so am quite tentative about posting, for fear of making a public mistake like Ed Balls. Andrew D. (talk) 08:58, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
- I've checked through the contributions of those on the List of #100Womenwiki article creators and found 5 or so new drafts & articles, two at AfD, one Prodded. --Tagishsimon (talk) 01:53, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you. That should help others (not me, I have other things to do) to follow up. Carcharoth (talk) 01:04, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- Not nearly as many as I expected, to be honest... Joe Roe (talk) 23:49, 10 December 2016 (UTC)
One more note for today. Some articles, such as María Tubau (which I think was added from the sweep of the AlexBot new article lists), may well have been created entirely independently of the BBC 100 Women editathon and associated publicity (typically, the BBC focus on living people and journalistic coverage, rather than historical coverage). Some articles will have been created by people inspired by the BBC 100 Women coverage to write about historic women, but am not sure if this is one of them. I suspect it is a coincidence. Pinging the article creator @Nick Number: to check. Carcharoth (talk) 03:17, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- Hi. I got to María Tubau from a red link in another article I translated in October, Adela Carboné. I got to her from the Wikipedia:WikiProject Women writers/Missing articles list. So I'm afraid I can't credit your editathon here...but I could take a look at something if you'd like. Nick Number (talk) 03:56, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for explaining. I'll move it to a different part of the list. Maybe take a look at Louise-Joséphine Sarazin de Belmont? Carcharoth (talk) 10:44, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- That one was "ours". Unrelated to the BBC thing we had a day-long event in Groningen with a total of 10 participants, using the #100wikiwomen hashtag. We decided not to look at the BBC list though we mentioned it, because we were concentrating on women who had already "jumped the notability hoops" by having well-fleshed out Wikidata items and having been added to at least two other language Wikipedias, but who were missing from either the Dutch or the English Wikipedia. By creating this Louise-Joséphine Sarazin de Belmont in both nl and en we could show how two language Wikipedias are different in terms of infoboxes and citations and categories. This day was in conjunction with our Gendergap workgroup, exploring ways to onboard people quickly who would like to make a larger contribution. Jane (talk) 16:02, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks for explaining. I'll move it to a different part of the list. Maybe take a look at Louise-Joséphine Sarazin de Belmont? Carcharoth (talk) 10:44, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
Tough one on Louise-Joséphine Sarazin de Belmont, I found that she was also a lithographer but couldn't find any more info, plenty of book hits but largely all the same brief summaries. Perhaps Aymatth2 can use his skills and get it to start class, he's good on entries like that.♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:46, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- I would like to thank everyone for helping to compile these lists and drawing attention to many of the problems. While I really appreciate the contributions of Carcharoth, I think it might have been useful if s/he had followed our normal practice of listing the articles by the time of creation. By creating an alphabetized list from the start, it is not easy to see how things have evolved and I find myself going back again and again to articles that I have already worked on. As I explained earlier, alphabetized lists are available on a day-to-day basis from WiR Metrics. I realize our bots are not yet performing optimally but we are trying to avoid as much human gnoming as possible. Another problem is Wikidata. I have been looking at many of the articles from the 8th and also from the 9th and see that they have not been added to Wikidata with the result that they have not been counted in our Gender by Language stats. In fact I see that for the last week, only 460 new articles on women were included for the EN wiki, far fewer than expected. Despite all the BBC stuff, we only moved up fractionally, from 16.75% to 16.77% (for EN bios on women). I'll stop here now but might return later. Thanks again all for your efforts but there's still a lot to do.--Ipigott (talk) 19:08, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- I suggested the alphabetising, but I didn't implement it. Most of the assessing and ordering of the list was actually done by Tagishsimon, with help from Joe Roe in finding more of the articles - did they actually all appear in the WiR metrics? If they didn't, then the metrics are not picking up everything. Does it make sense to list articles created on a single day by the order in which they were created? I am sure someone can do that for you if you want that done. Carcharoth (talk) 19:17, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- Insofar as the list was compiled from multiple disparate sources, the idea of trying to maintain it in article creation date order is hopeful, at best. And it was a pain to add things when it was not alpha-ordered, as one had to scan through the 100 & some row-length list looking for the new find. I noted below the issue with stats; that seems to be resolved now, and another 75 articles are currently making their way onto wikidata. As to the overall count: that's mostly a lack of SvG effect, something we may have to become used to. --Tagishsimon (talk) 04:42, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
Simple question (I hope): what is needed to be included in articles for them to be picked up on the WiR metrics page? I tried reading about it, but am not sure. Does it need the WiR WikiProject tag on the talk page (that is the most surefire method of making sure an article gets included)? Does it need a Wikidata entry to be created? Does it need an authority control template included? There may be something basic missing from these articles (created by new editors remember) that means they are not showing up. Also, if they are borderline notable, they won't have authority control data anyway. Carcharoth (talk) 19:25, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- Carcharoth Very busy at the moment but briefly: the metrics are based solely on Wikidata.--Ipigott (talk) 19:56, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
- Indeed. The metrics are looking for wikidata items which have the properties instance=humun & gender=female. What needs to be included in an article for it to be added as a wikidata item is a category in the Women by .... tree (e.g. occupation, nationality) or the nnnn births or nnnn deaths trees. All members of these category trees are checked and those that lack corresponding wikidata items have those items created with the two properties in place. There's been a hiatus in the last 24 hours, caused I think by a temporary database sychronisation failure, now corrected. --Tagishsimon (talk) 04:42, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
A report on BBC 100 Women
I have started a discussion on this here. Comments welcome from all.--Ipigott (talk) 12:26, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
- I wonder if the if the conversation would get more attention if it were held here instead of on the meetup page? I know, too, that the WMF is interested in lessons learned from this event, so there's some practicality with keeping WiR's "BBC 100 Women" conversations on one talkpage. --Rosiestep (talk) 19:07, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
- A bit more (/any) notice for projects involved in reviewing new articles (i.e. WP:NPP and WP:AFCP) would probably be appreciated. Gestrid very diligently notified both projects but I don't think that was an "official" communication from the editathon organisers (correct me if I'm wrong) and it was less than two hours before the event started. Joe Roe (talk) 21:18, 16 December 2016 (UTC)
- @Rosiestep: This page is already pretty full of discussions on the event. I thought that on the basis of this snippet, people would go to the meetup page rather than swamp further important discussions on other matters here. I'm glad to see we already have two extensive pieces of feedback. As editor of Signpost, how do you feel about preparing something on the BBC event as one of the main articles in the near future? As you have been involved in WiR's involvement from the start, perhaps you could act as coordinating editor?--Ipigott (talk) 13:26, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
- @Joe Roe: I think all of us were confused about the status of the BBC editathons but at least on WiR the first notice of the event was posted on this page on 7 November. I also see that with our invitation on 23 November we advised you that the BBC event was receiving our support. But it was only on 7 December that I noticed that the editathons for internal BBC staff were finally being opened up to all. I think it must have been a result of much wider interest than was originally expected. Until then we had been informed that their "editathons" would be mainly devoted to informing BBC staff about Wikipedia's response to the gender gap rather than bringing new users on board. All this will contribute to the learning curve for arranging future events with the BBC or other broadcasters and the way in which we organize our own responses. I was glad you were able to lend a hand to subsequent posting, sorting and reviewing. Your interest together with that of Tagishsimon and Carcharoth was a great help to all concerned.--Ipigott (talk) 16:49, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
- Thank you, Ipigott. Sorry I should clarify, I did know about it (or should have, can't say if I really remembered!) through WiR, my concern was more WP:NPP and WP:AFCP in general. These are usually the editors that come into contact with new articles so I think it's a good idea to give them a heads up about potential influxes of new articles, if only to make sure they're looked at promptly by responsible patrollers/reviewers (unfortunately there are problems with the quality of both, as I'm sure you've encountered). However, the late notice makes perfect sense if you didn't find out about it yourselves until the last minute. Joe Roe (talk) 17:00, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
2017 contests
See here and here for discussions re 2017 contests to improve the content gender gap. --Rosiestep (talk) 19:02, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
- I've made some comments on the talk page of The woman you never meet.--Ipigott (talk) 14:20, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
Gender gap evidence
Spotted a redlink for Penny Vincenzi in our article for Cheyne Walk, a London street. Creating a short stub, spotted her name in a list of the top 100 bestselling authors in the UK in the 2000-09 decade (all selling over 2 million books), and wondered who else might be missing an article. Three. All women. Penny Vincenzi and Lesley Pearse write what appears to be historical/romantic fiction, and Fiona Watt (author) has written over 100 children's books. Edwardx (talk) 11:40, 18 December 2016 (UTC)
- Good catch, Edwardx. It's amazing the people you stumble on while doing research on another topic. And it's sad to see so many women overlooked. Thanks for bringing these to our attention. Megalibrarygirl (talk) 18:44, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
- Talking of which, are there similar lists for other decades? What about top New York Times bestsellers? We have a list of the writers and works at the top of the list, but what about top-tens per decade, for instance? (Maybe they exist, but I've not done any special digging on the subject.) There might be some fodder for discussion there. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 20:54, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
Nomination of Marion Foster Welch for deletion
![](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5f/Ambox_warning_orange.svg/48px-Ambox_warning_orange.svg.png)
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Marion Foster Welch is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.
The article will be discussed at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Marion Foster Welch until a consensus is reached, and anyone is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.
Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Guy (Help!) 10:50, 22 December 2016 (UTC)
Article by Rosiestep on BBC News
Thanks to Signpost, I just came across Viewpoint: How I tackle Wiki gender gap one article at a time which was published on the BBC News website on 7 December.--Ipigott (talk) 12:13, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
Thanks, Ipigott. And here's Lucy's really nice blogpost regarding the campaign. --Rosiestep (talk) 19:00, 23 December 2016 (UTC)
- Yes, Lucy's blog article is very positive. I've also bee reading the report on the Welsh-language results. They now have even more biographies about women than about men. It might be useful to investigate their secret of success.--Ipigott (talk) 11:01, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
List of female Egyptologists up for deletion
This is a difficult case which deserves special consideration. It is one of several created from Wikidata by Emijrp. I have already commented at length under the AfD discussion. I think it would be useful to have comments from Rosiestep, Megalibrarygirl, SusunW and Victuallers as well as from those more closely associated with Wikidata such as Harej and Jane023. But don't let it spoil your Christmas.--Ipigott (talk) 12:09, 25 December 2016 (UTC)
- Possibly as a result of my mentioning it in connection with the above, List of women linguists is also at AfD.--Ipigott (talk) 11:46, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- In this connection, see also Joe Roe's talk page.--Ipigott (talk) 15:51, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Huge increase in biographies of women on the Welsh Wikipedia
Last week an amazing 3,231 women's biographies were created on the Welsh Wikipedia, only 12 being created on men. (This compares with only 262 new women's biographies on the EN Wikipedia.) Work on women's biographies in Welsh has now brought the overall total to 9,316, or 53.37% of the total of 17,456. Intrigued at these developments, I looked at many of the articles listed under Category 20th-century women only to discover that since 2 December nearly all the new articles have been created by bots making use of Wikipedia:AutoWikiBrowser drawing on the EN articles, Wikidata info and assisted by other bots such as BOT-Twm Crys. In the case of women artists (and perhaps others), Wikidata lists of blue links have been added to each article. I don't want to pass judgment on the success/quality of these developments but the approach might be interesting to investigate for those wishing to increase the number of women's biographies on the EN Wikipedia using Wikidata and articles written in other languages.--Ipigott (talk) 11:34, 26 December 2016 (UTC)
- Per the imminent mass-deletion of SvG articles [2], the bar for automated creation of articles on en.wiki is high. I doubt the Welsh approach (example) would fly here, but rather would be shot-down as a referenceless BLP violation. --Tagishsimon (talk) 04:00, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- I had the same thought Tagishsimon, it would most likely not work. Anytime there is an event that creates large amounts of women's biographies on English WP, they are targeted for scrutiny. That might be a good thing if the purpose of that evaluation was to focus efforts on improving them, but the reality is that it is usually merely a push to remove them. SusunW (talk) 04:16, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- You are right Tagishsimon that the deletion of all the BLPs SvG has contributed on women over the past year or so will have a catastrophic effect on our metrics. He has been our most active contributor by far in terms of the number of new articles added, particularly in recent months when he has concentrated on adding women's biographies. If BLP mini-stubs on women in sport added by other editors using similar tools are also deleted, we'll probably be back to where we started in early 2015. As it is, our stats from now on are likely to show disappointing results unless we can create additional interest by means of the challenges and contests proposed by Dr. Blofeld. I also agree with SusunW that in general the established male community tends to be less tolerant of articles about women than of those about men (see also in this connection the Bloomberg article Is Wikipedia Woke?), but in the case of SvG a woman was actually the one who initiated the dispute. But to go back to the Welsh biographies, I think we might well be able to build on their approach, not necessarily by creating articles in the mainspace but on creating drafts for editors to check, refine and enhance. The example of Wendy Linn Applequist which was added to Wikidata as a result of an article in Spanish is just the kind of draft stub which could facilitate the creation of more biographies about women on the EN wiki. We will certainly need to re-examine our strategy if we are to make further headway on improving coverage of women in Wikipedia.--Ipigott (talk) 10:30, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- I am proud to announce that I brought my personal %Female percentage in biographies to %17.1 this year from a %6.2 starting point 4 years ago. If we encourage active editors to attempt this in their own field of interest as a challenge for 2017 we may be able to make a more diverse and significant difference. Theoretically it would be worth making a contest for those who increase their percentage the most (in any Wikipedia) since we can harvest all edits to make the calculation based on Wikidata properties (deleted articles won't count because we can't count them). Personally I was surprised to find how difficult it was to do. I didn't expect there to be so few sources for women in the arts. Jane (talk) 11:01, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- You are right Tagishsimon that the deletion of all the BLPs SvG has contributed on women over the past year or so will have a catastrophic effect on our metrics. He has been our most active contributor by far in terms of the number of new articles added, particularly in recent months when he has concentrated on adding women's biographies. If BLP mini-stubs on women in sport added by other editors using similar tools are also deleted, we'll probably be back to where we started in early 2015. As it is, our stats from now on are likely to show disappointing results unless we can create additional interest by means of the challenges and contests proposed by Dr. Blofeld. I also agree with SusunW that in general the established male community tends to be less tolerant of articles about women than of those about men (see also in this connection the Bloomberg article Is Wikipedia Woke?), but in the case of SvG a woman was actually the one who initiated the dispute. But to go back to the Welsh biographies, I think we might well be able to build on their approach, not necessarily by creating articles in the mainspace but on creating drafts for editors to check, refine and enhance. The example of Wendy Linn Applequist which was added to Wikidata as a result of an article in Spanish is just the kind of draft stub which could facilitate the creation of more biographies about women on the EN wiki. We will certainly need to re-examine our strategy if we are to make further headway on improving coverage of women in Wikipedia.--Ipigott (talk) 10:30, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- I had the same thought Tagishsimon, it would most likely not work. Anytime there is an event that creates large amounts of women's biographies on English WP, they are targeted for scrutiny. That might be a good thing if the purpose of that evaluation was to focus efforts on improving them, but the reality is that it is usually merely a push to remove them. SusunW (talk) 04:16, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Jane You are certainly one of those to be congratulated on improving coverage of women. And also on your work on art. In that connection, as a result of the lists at AfD (see above), your Wikidata painting lists have been mentioned here. A number of us have been suggesting more discussion on the use of Wikidata in connection with Wikipedia articles. I think you have some excellent background to contribute.--Ipigott (talk) 12:08, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- Hi back, and thanks for all your patient work here! I get quickly tired of reading all the discussion and would rather make "main namespace edits" on whatever project possible. Yes I agree on the deletionists for the Egyptologists, I am afraid to say. I think I was quite proud of my List of paintings by Jacob van Ruisdael and thought it would be the beginning of a tidal wave. Boy was I wrong! The German Wikipedia nearly excommunicated me from the movement. Since then I have managed to create a few converts. The thing is, the most emphatic anti-Wikidata Wikipedians start to get hooked in spite of themselves if you can hook them in based on their own personal interests (a challenging but fun thing to attempt, in my opinion). I have had successes and failures but refuse to give up, and slowly but surely I am getting better at modelling data for artists and their work. What is needed is a "Wikidata for Dummies" in each and every corner that is modelling something (e.g. Egyptology). On the subject of those Welsh stubs, I took a look out of curiosity just as you did and was horrified by what I found. In my personal gendergap work, I try to delete sentences in Wikipedia articles along the lines of "She was one of the three known female xxxx's of her time", and I certainly delete the "see also" sections where related articles are "other women of her time" as if any woman is interesting to read about because there were other women active in the same time period!! This Welsh project seems to have done just that - on steroids. Sigh. Meanwhile, while all the Art&Feminism writers here stick to adding women artists (a worthwhile cause), I keep on trying to add their artworks to Commons and Wikidata with proper templating and references so that I can build a list along the lines of List of works by Artemisia Gentileschi. That one is short enough to do by hand and we need one for all other women artists of her time (without linking them together!). Jane (talk) 12:44, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Jane You are certainly one of those to be congratulated on improving coverage of women. And also on your work on art. In that connection, as a result of the lists at AfD (see above), your Wikidata painting lists have been mentioned here. A number of us have been suggesting more discussion on the use of Wikidata in connection with Wikipedia articles. I think you have some excellent background to contribute.--Ipigott (talk) 12:08, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Well, if we were relying heavily on somebody like Sander for upping the percentages markedly, then there is a problem with that. Let's try to remain positive, even if they're all deleted. I don't know how Welsh wikipedia got that many articles, I know how hard it was to get Welsh editors working on the Dragon contest, Llywelyn2000 I'm certain was partly responsible for the turnout, wish you could have doen the same for Awaken the Dragon Robin :-). The way forward for WIR should be in pursuit of higher quality stubs and new entries, truly global output across language wikis in terms of country coverage and editor participation, and improvement of existing material, the latter of which has been neglected really. I know WIR is aimed purely at new articles and upping the percentage but I'm seeing an enormous bias in terms of quality coverage for certain occupations too. So many important women bios which get a lot of traffic are poorly written and developed. I think if we're to become a more accomplished project we need to find numbers who develop women content in all areas. Perhaps the March US contest will start to move towards this with a focus on Destubbing. If we're to truly get numbers though, we need big contests and outreach to institutions worldwide, which is very time consuming and costly for volunteers.
At present I don't think starting a 100,000 Challenge for Women would be viable. However, if we started running some big contests on big funding, we could start to make it happen I think and realistically get us over 20%. And for that you could build prizes into the contest for editors who help newbies and their articles at events which are organized. We'll need better overall organizaiton though and to plan things out with the various women groups. Part of the problem is multiple things running each month now, and it often not being reported well in advance. I think we need a more central approach, and way to rope in dozens of new editors to permanently write articles about women than we normally get.♦ Dr. Blofeld 13:13, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- I totally agree that contests with real prizes are liable to achieve a great deal. I remember how this worked for French articles on some of the African countries not too long ago. As you suggest, the contests could be clearly focused, by occupation, by geographical region or by both. I also like the idea of expanding the approach to the wikis in the other languages. Is it too late to make a formal proposal along these lines?--Ipigott (talk) 16:15, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- I'd always be on board with a 100,000 Challenge for Women, for what it's worth - it might take us a long time but I think it'd be a great target to have. The Drover's Wife (talk) 22:28, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- When looking at the Welsh wiki, I noticed that Llywelyn2000 who helped you with the challenges had also been a key player on automating the creation of women biographies. It would be interesting to have some feedback from him on the problems involved, how they were overcome and how future quality control is to be ensured (if at all).--Ipigott (talk) 16:15, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
Bots can be very productive if used in the right way. A guy like Sander for instance, if he asked for some assistance you could quite easily quickly recreate the deleted articles and more using several sources to create accurate new entries. General consensus is against mass creation, even by a bot though. I wouldn't recommend it either for general women bios at least on English wikipedia, but I think for some of the generic sports ones which are largely data-based, using a bot would be more ideal to max out the content produced upon creation. A lot of the Welsh women bios created contian big wiki-data lists like this, they'd get deleted on English wikipedia as I know Robin has had trouble with this!♦ Dr. Blofeld 17:11, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- There are almost 17,000 of them as you can see from here. They must be burning out our servers with Listeria updates on each one every single day! That's hardly necessary. No wonder Wikimedia is calling for more funding. I wonder if anyone ever monitors this sort of thing.--Ipigott (talk) 17:41, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- Dr. Blofeld I support your thinking re Sander's bios. We need to find a way to incorporate RS in the articles and recreate them instead of losing part of the "sum of all human knowledge". In turn, other languages wikis can translate the articles such as Robin on Welsh. --Rosiestep (talk) 18:41, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- It should not be too difficult to retrieve the information from Wikidata. With some human attention, it should be possible to retrieve most of the information so hastily dismissed - including that on this month's Caribbean footballers.--Ipigott (talk) 19:35, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- I'm generally a huge proponent of using automated and semi-automated tools to create articles, and I frankly think it's absurd that there's not more support for doing so in these precincts. Having said which...I'm generally far more cautious when considering it as a method for creating biographical articles. There is something to be said for automated creation of data-heavy biographical stubs, but by and large I think it's far more important to have human input...biographies can so easily go wrong, and it's vital to have some kind of immediate control to counter that.
- It should not be too difficult to retrieve the information from Wikidata. With some human attention, it should be possible to retrieve most of the information so hastily dismissed - including that on this month's Caribbean footballers.--Ipigott (talk) 19:35, 27 December 2016 (UTC)
- That being said, if some form of semi-automated tool could be developed to tweak and correct those of SvG's articles which are in trouble, then there may be some possibility to salvage them. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 02:47, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
- The problem is the sheer volume of his work over the past 18 months. No one can possibly be expected to look through it in just one week. It looks to me as if around 17,000 articles can be considered BLP stubs, about half of which are on women. SvG is one of many editors who use semi-automatic processing for adding entries on people in sport. Most of the articles correctly give details such as full name, date of birth, nationality, specific sport, sport category, team, competition, together with a reference. It seems to me this is useful information to have in an encyclopaedia, especially when individuals represent their country in international events or world championships. Unfortunately, as far as I can see, as a result of the bots used for ensuring women are included in Wikidata, in most cases the only information entered there is name, human and female. It's a pity there seems to be no way of automatically scanning the information from the box in each article and adding it to Wikipedia. At least that would have served as a basis for further work on English and in the other languages. From tomorrow, those who are not administrators will not be able to monitor or improve any of this important work and it will no longer be accessible to those working on improvements to the Wikidata entries. The only trace will be red links on the list of articles created by Sander. I hope that as many as possible can be saved as a result of additional categories and similar minor modifications introduced by editors such as BrownHairedGirl. I'm not sure whether such additions will be taken into consideration.
- The great danger is of course that those editors who have called for the deletion of Sander's mini BLPs will now begin to monitor all the other editors who create mini-stubs on people in sports. Interestingly, I have noted that some of the most active ones have discontinued their work since Sander came into the limelight.--Ipigott (talk) 12:31, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
- Correction. I see that many of those entered on Wikidata before mid-November have since been updated. The more recent ones, including the Caribbean footballers, still need to be enhanced. I'm trying to add basic info.--Ipigott (talk) 13:12, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
- Caribbean footballers now on Wikidata.--Ipigott (talk) 15:32, 28 December 2016 (UTC)
January 2017 at Women in Red
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Women Philosophers & Women in Education online editathons ![]() |
(To subscribe, Women in Red/Invite list. Unsubscribe, Women in Red/Opt-out list) --Ipigott (talk) 17:03, 29 December 2016 (UTC)