Talk:Big the Cat

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Untitled

Wasn't there already a thing on him in the "List of Minor Characters in Sonic"? This article is useles..

EDIT: Nevermind, it was apparently removed. Forget everything (DX)

This is a better more fuller article anyhow. And Tikal has one, and she appears less than Big. --anon

Age and Froggy's merge

Big is 19 years old, but 18 in Sonic Adventure. The Sonic Adventure guide is, "Official Sonic Adventure Strategy Guide". On it also says, "Sega Dreamcast" as well as "Bradygames". In the back of the guide, it says, "BradyGames" and "Sega", which might mean Sega and Bradygames made it together. Since Sega made it, it's officially canon and verifiable.

As for the Froggy section, it should be merged with Minor characters in Sonic the Hedgehog because Froggy has his own section there, and Froggy is really about Big. --anon

Agree anon, just put a link in there, like {{seealso}} or {{main}}, and mention that Froggy is Big's travelling companion. Just a small summary would suffice. --DavidHOzAu 12:09, 24 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay, good idea, so I'll go and merge it. --anon

thanks for adding bigs own section, i think he deserved one :)

You're welcome, but actually, since I'm an anonymous person, someone had to make it for me (but I did write most of the information). I'm glad you like it! :) --anon

I posted it for Anon, but he wrote EVERYTHING. Thanks Anon! ~ Ultimate Perfect Chaos 03:45, 4 May 2006 (UTC) ~[reply]

Big in SA2 but not SA2:B

By proof do you mean that Big was not in SA2:B and was replaced with Dark Chao Walker, then you can look up Dark Chao Walker on the SA2:B Website, since i'm new at this and don't know how to add a link to a picture. If you mean Big being in SA2, then I can't provide any, but I do own the game and have seen him.

Oh, I get it! Big is in SA2, but not SA2:B. At first, I thought the article kept saying something like Big was replaced by the Dark Chao Walker in SA2. --anon nHe is in SA2:B,if you look closely,you can see him in some levels.

No he isn't, you can only see him in SA2:B during some cutscenes... press A a whole lot

Fleetway and links

First of all, what is the unofficial continuation of Sonic the Comic?

Second, what's wrong with the Concept-Mobius link? --71.104.187.141 21:06, 12 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The entire site runs on the belief that there is only one Sonic universe as opposed to many different universes (being different TV shows, video games, comics). - "Tails Ohki" from GameFAQs

Uh, which question are you answering? --71.104.182.53 07:44, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Yours. - "Tails Ohki" from GameFAQs 67.173.62.22 14:50, 14 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, when I asked which question you were answering, I meant whether you were answering the question: "What is the unofficial continuation of Sonic the Comic?" Or this question: "What's wrong with the Concept-Mobius link?" --71.105.7.87 00:37, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Oh... both were yours... ^_^; The one about Concept: Mobius. - "Tails Ohki" from GameFAQs 67.173.62.22 00:41, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, even if they think there's only one Sonic universe, it still has information about Big, such as abilities, weaknesses, what Big did in the games, where else Big appeared (such as in the comic book, show, etc.), and voice actors. --71.105.7.87 06:54, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Never mind. I had a discussion on the Sonic the Hedgehog talk page about it. Against my better judgement, I'll no longer edit the link out. The member made good points about it for Sonic's profile. - "Tails Ohki" from GameFAQs 67.173.62.22 14:30, 15 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

SO do you know what's the unofficial continuation of Sonic the Comic? --71.104.180.139 19:10, 17 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's a comic that is not considered part of the game series, but it is about Sonic and has adaptions of the games.--A c1983fan (talk • contribs) 22:52, 17 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

See, some people decided to continue making Sonic the Comic online after it ended around the time of Sonic Adventure. You can find it through a search engine. I don't know where it is though, but I've seen it. - "Tails Ohki" from GameFAQs 67.173.62.22 23:07, 18 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Then it's actually a fanfic and shouldn't be in the article!...Right? --71.104.176.177 05:40, 20 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism

Is the criticism true? It really needs a source! --71.118.83.254 07:00, 22 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well i don't have a direct scource yet but Concept Mobius mentions how few fans he has (even though he likes big). That interview that i reffered too is a Gamespot exlusive that you can find on Gamespot's Sonic Adventure DX page and i once put a poll on a sonic fansite about which Sonic Char is the worst and big got 50% of the vote the rest of the votes of the characters only had 1 or 2 votes. ill put references to both later -Yadrin

Big the censored

A few days ago I found that in the criticism page the word "homosexual" was replaced by "censured". "Homosexual" is not a curse word in the normal sense of it so that's why I put it back. Plainnym

Sonic Heroes

I changed the part saying Sega did pay attention the criticism about Big, because he was in fact in Sonic Heroes. In Team Rose he was the 'power' character.--Soetermans 11:30, 27 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Theme Songs

Shouldn't we add Big's theme songs, like we have done to every other character?

Unreliable sources

TSSZNews is a Sonic fansite, not a reliable source, and Ryan Bloom's non-notable review of Sonic Adventure 2 HD doesn't even mention Big in the main text. (Bloom only refers to Big in a screenshot caption reading "Okay, so they put Big the Cat back in – but where’s my green x-boxes?"--which should give you a good idea of how significant this "coverage" of Big really is.) Jason Berry of The Sonic Stadium, another unreliable fansite, did report in 2012 that Iizuka saw no further use for Big; but the other cited source, Angelo D'Argenio of Cheat Code Central, says only that "Sonic has been lacking in the past few years, but, at the very least, Sonic Team has had the good sense to not bring this character back." I see no reason to doubt that Iizuka said what is claimed, but in the absence of a reliable source, I really don't think Wikipedia should be making any sweeping statements about Big's "dead weight" pulling down the franchise.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 05:49, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed Bloom's review altogether—you're right; I'd forgotten about the nature of TSSZ—and I've reworded the statement about Sega removing Big. And yeah, I know that the Cheat Code Central one doesn't mention everything Sonic Stadium does, but I just wanted to add something else to back it up just in case. (Technically, it was determined in a recent WT:VG discussion that interviews from non-reliable sources can be acceptable, but I wanted to be sure.) Tezero (talk) 16:17, 5 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The lead says Big was "Created to justify the existing use of a fishing peripheral for the Dreamcast console," but this is contradicted elsewhere in the article. How do we know what the lead says is true? (I honestly don't even remember Sonic Adventure being compatible with the fishing rod....)TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 06:29, 14 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Where is this contradicted? I can't speak to whether Big actually uses that peripheral, as I've only played the Steam port of DX and a few of Sonic's levels on the Dreamcast. If indeed he doesn't, maybe Sonic Team intended him to but scrapped the idea. Tezero (talk) 18:54, 14 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Where is this supported? Outside of the lead, the article says only "Rumors persist that Big was created to capitalize on the Dreamcast's fishing peripheral, but Iizuka has insisted that Big was conceived before the peripheral was" (citing an interview by Gerjet Betker of Gamers Global). As far as I can see, no cited sources support the text in the lead.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 19:09, 14 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Ohhhhh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, I've been meaning to redo the lead entirely—I wrote it when the article was mostly just the first and last sections with "expand" tags in the middle—so I'll clear up that ambiguity. Tezero (talk) 19:18, 14 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Big the Cat/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Nominator: Tezero (talk · contribs)

Reviewer: CR4ZE (talk · contribs) 03:48, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'm surprised this has been sitting without review for over a month. I will take it; expect comments later today. CR4ZE (t) 03:48, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! I was getting worried that it was too egregiously bad to review - or there were some unspoken notability concerns that no one felt significant enough to voice. Tezero (talk) 04:04, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose is "clear and concise", without copyvios, or spelling and grammar errors:
"Big is a large, overweight, purple, 18-year-old anthropomorphic cat" - can you rework that sentence, perhaps into two? Too many adjectives at once.
Done. Tezero (talk) 15:34, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"He plays the role of "power" character in Team Rose in Sonic Heroes". I had to look at the Sonic Heroes article to understand what this meant. Perhaps try something along the lines of: "In Sonic Heroes, Big is the Power character type in Team Rose". Not sure why Knuckles, E-123 Omega or Vector need to be mentioned.
Reworded similarly. Tezero (talk) 15:34, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
The terms "video game", "cat" and "frog" do not need to be wikilinked. Per MOS:QUOTE, you can just write "considered by many to be Sonic Team’s crowning moment of derp" without brackets around the lower-case letter "c".
Done. Tezero (talk) 15:30, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. Has an appropriate reference section:

B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:
I have concerns with a number of sources. Please provide evidence of reliability for the following: Gamers Global (#1), Cheat Code Central (#47), SegaBits (#49), Axiom Magazine (#55) and Sonic Stadium (#56). If you have difficulty, let's instead open a discussion at WP:VG/RS so we can reach consensus with other editors. How is an Amazon listing an RS? In the case of the Nintendo Everything citation (#58), the article is sourced from an interview with Official Nintendo Magazine. You need to replace that with the original source instead, because again I don't see reliability. Inquire at WP:VG/RL, search online or try Zinio.
Here it is if you don't mind paying $5. CR4ZE (t) 12:58, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Cheat Code Central, SegaBits, and Axiom Magazine are just being used for opinions, not facts about the games or character. Does that matter? Tezero (talk) 15:30, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

For Sonic Stadium, I've found something more reliable (still from SegaBits, but an interview, which per a recent GAN of mine can be pretty much reliable no matter whom they're from) to back it up with. Tezero (talk) 15:30, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And for Official Nintendo Magazine, I guess I can pay the fee if that's the only option, but how sure are you that that's the right issue? Tezero (talk) 15:38, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

As for the Amazon listings, well, I assumed they were RSes as they've been used in GAs before, but I was able to cite something about Big merchandise to the interview. Tezero (talk) 15:35, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I have opened up a discussion here to make sure we are in the clear for Axiom, CCC and SegaBits. I am quite sure that the ONM issue I linked you is the correct one. If you click on the "Contents" page preview, on page 10 there is an interview Iizuka on Sonic Lost World. I checked the November and September issues to make sure there wasn't anything from Iizuka in those. However, before you go and purchase it, make sure you check the Reference library and see if someone has it, or try to find a scanned copy online. The only person here who would have it is User:Ashnard, but they appear to be inactive at this time. CR4ZE (t) 05:41, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I decided to just buy it, but then I got this message: "Sorry! This edition of Official Nintendo is not eligible for sale in your region. Please remove it from your cart to continue." I live in the U.S., not Australia, so would you be okay buying it if you could think of some way for me to pay you back? Alternately, could I just... cite it anyway? I know basically what it says already and, presumably, on which pages. Tezero (talk) 14:52, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You can cite it anyway, yes, but you'll need to make sure you can fill out all the appropriate fields in the cite journal template. Perhaps the reason that you were unable to purchase it is that I sent you a link with an "au.zinio.com" designation? CR4ZE (t) 22:24, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Perhaps. Anyway, I've cited the issue, so I don't think we should be waiting on anything but a reply to that source question. Tezero (talk) 01:12, 28 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Axiom is gone, and I have decided that CCC is a situational okay in this instance only. The piece is clearly attributed as an opinion, and the author is a staff member of the website. However, I doubt you'll be able to use it if you decide to go for FAC. The SegaBits interview from YouTube features two Sonic Team developers, so that's a situational okay as well. CR4ZE (t) 05:24, 28 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:

B. Focused:
The first two paragraphs of In video games are borderline WP:NOTPLOT. Condense and merge into one paragraph.
Done. Tezero (talk) 15:46, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:
File:Big the Cat Sonic Channel.gif and File:Big the Cat fishing.jpg are both fine. During the fishing gameplay in Sonic Adventure, is there any point at which both Big and Froggy are visible on-screen? That would be a better choice. However, what you have now is satisfactory for GA-Class.
As I recall, it briefly shows Big and Froggy together at the end of each sequence, but then you don't really know what the gameplay is like. Would you prefer something like that? I'd really like to know what's ideal, as I'm considering going for FAC after a PR. Tezero (talk) 15:30, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
In that case the image that you have now would be the best choice. I wanted to see an in-game depiction of Big but the infobox image basically serves that purpose. If you could find a good one, I wouldn't rule out adding a third image to the Reception section. However, as you already have two, it'd have to be a very different kind of shot with an airtight fair use rationale. (This would be for going forward beyond this GAN, as what you have now is perfectly fine). CR4ZE (t) 10:36, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:
Please remove the external link in the caption for the Infobox image.
Done. Tezero (talk) 15:30, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Overall:
Pass or Fail:
Aside from my concerns with the sources, the article's basically there already. CR4ZE (t) 10:33, 26 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

This section is transcluded from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Sources/Archive 8#Big the Cat RS. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the discussion.

Find video game sources: "Axiom Magazine" – news · books · scholar · images – VGRS · WPVG Talk · LinkSearch · CrossWiki · LinkTo

Find video game sources: "SegaBits" – news · books · scholar · images – VGRS · WPVG Talk · LinkSearch · CrossWiki · LinkTo

In the article Big the Cat, which is a current GAN, there are two sites being cited in the material that I have not heard of. Are Axiom Magazine and SegaBits okay to use in this context? Cheat Code Central is additionally being used in an opinion piece; is it appropriate to use in the article? CR4ZE (t) 05:35, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The discussions linked on the page for CCC show it as generally being seen as unreliable. I don't go about remove every instance of it, because there's no hard consensus it seems, but I wouldn't think it would be fit for a GA. Segabits is just a Sega fansite too, isn't it? Sergecross73 msg me 12:55, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I didn't see any evidence that AxiomMagazine is reliable. It has barely any hits on Google, and is not recognized at all in the industry. Anyone can start a magazine, but that doesn't instantly create a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. SegaBits is an unreliable fansite. Other industry players seem to only use the site for its finds, but they don't take SegaBits's word for anything and always look at the source themselves ([1] [2]). That's not a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. And as a nail in the coffin, they've been called out for bad reporting by VentureBeat. That is a giant black mark in my book. Regarding CCC, I don't like using it if it's avoidable, especially some of their lower tier writers like this one is. I wouldn't use it myself, but I wouldn't forbid it either. --Odie5533 (talk) 13:29, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'll agree with the both of you on Axiom and SegaBits. User:Tezero, looks like you're going to have to find replacements and if you can't you'll have to remove the statements that are sourced from these sites. Now in the case of CCC, you're both right in saying it isn't the best source. The article in question is an opinion piece composed by Angelo M. D'Argenio. He is a senior staff member who's been with them for three years. The article makes point that it is a subjective opinion, and it's written by someone who appears to have some experience. I wouldn't say his usage is cardinal sin in this instance, at least not for a GA, but it appears that Tezero is limited by the amount of RS to be used in the article. Would anybody else conclude CCC's usage as a situational okay in this instance only? CR4ZE (t) 13:41, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I remember feeling sketchy about Axiom and SegaBits when I first added them, and they're now gone without much consequence. As I recall, I just wanted to be damn sure the article wasn't going to get re-merged. CheatCC, though, I guess I assumed was a decently respected site, maybe on the level of Destructoid or GameZone, but one that happened to host user-submitted cheat codes alongside its more respectable articles. Tezero (talk) 14:57, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Verdict

✓ Pass. CR4ZE (t) 05:24, 28 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Notability

Please see Talk:List of Sonic the Hedgehog video game characters#Notability for a notability discussion that pertains to this article and its series czar ♔ 04:26, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Jim Stirling's article says that Tails is the worst sonic character

On the second page for Tails it says "The final and most important entrant into this list of the top 10 worst Sonic friends is the one that started it all: Miles "Tails" Prower. ... Tails is the worst Sonic friend ever because he started it all."

The list isn't even stated to be in any particular order

http://web.archive.org/web/20131101120757/http://www.gamesradar.com/the-10-worst-sonic-friends/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.47.106.28 (talk) 20:00, 1 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]