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 Nixinova  T  C  00:53, 14 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Nixinova  T  C  07:14, 23 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Nixinova: Just a note, you could use the Refideas template to list sources to use later on the top of a talk page. I'll add it for you. Melofors 02:00, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Pings don't work if you add them in a separate edit. —  HELLKNOWZ   ▎TALK 15:28, 10 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Pings do work if you add them in a separate edit. —Anomalocaris (talk) 21:24, 13 December 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The interpretation of sources about Hypixel's timeline is incorrect.

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The wikipedia article states "and decided to make their own game in 2015" In early 2014, Hypixel's MVP+ rank included "early access to our upcoming standalone game" I'll probably only find first-party sources, but that clearly means that it was a project before 2015. Simon's official statement is here : https://hypixel.net/threads/announcing-hypixel-studios-and-hytale.1896235/page-18#post-14454240 It seems that *Hytale* as a specific game appeared in 2015, but the decision of making an Hypixel game was from way earlier than that. 2A02:A03F:3ADB:6B00:9AA:8BFD:9625:B7EC (talk) 12:11, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Good find, but are there any better sources than a forum post? ~ Dissident93 (talk) 18:55, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Hm, interesting. That doesn't really fit into the reasoning for Hytale specifically (stemmed from 2014's EULA changes), but may have been an earlier different game they were planning on doing. And then when they realised they were switching to developing a different game instead they stopped offering the beta access to the 'original game' that was no longer being developed. This offer ceased on 30 July 2014; the new EULA came into effect 2 days later. Coincidence? Just speculation, though.  Nixinova   T   C   20:40, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I was playing Hypixel in 2013 so I *know* this fact was true at the time... the problem is having a reliable source to support it, besides Hypixel's forum post. This mention was removed in 2014 and Hytale was announced in 2017, so at the time it wasn't the kind of info to be announced (people who purchased it know they had it, new players have no reason to ask). That this project turned into Hytale or that the project's planned result was something different is completely unknown, like Nixinova said. I see a few spots were another source could be found, but Hypixel's twitter got wiped when Hytale was announced and the Hytale announcement wasn't meant for new players, that let two other places I'll check : A) MVP+ rank announcement : when it got added, when the EULA changes got implemented (less likely), when MVP++ was added (even less) B) an archived version of the store on the Internet Archive (but I think I already checked) [EDIT] WayBackMachine of the store is a dead end, the MVP+ details were available at https://store.hypixel.net/package/540085 , but it's only snapshot is from 2015

2A02:A03F:3ADB:6B00:B02C:ABA9:AAC8:4880 (talk) 18:13, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I re-read the source about "The idea for Hytale arose due to EULA changes by Mojang in 2014"... maybe I'm too tired, but it isn't there? The source states that one of the last tasks was making the revenue source EULA-compliant and that after that he didn't want to simply work on a Minecraft server. 2A02:A03F:3ADB:6B00:B02C:ABA9:AAC8:4880 (talk) 18:30, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
In a post-EULA world, this was simply not going to fly. Donaghey's job ... was to prepare Hypixel and its play rewards for the new era. // The server survived, but its revenue dropped a staggering 85 per cent. ... if your future is going to be just being a Minecraft server, it's probably not that sustainable for me as a person." But Collins-Laflamme had never made a game before ... He suggested they'd need about seven people, 18 months, and $700,000 to make their game. ... The one thing they definitely didn't want to do was make a blockgame. "Every single fibre of our bodies was like, 'No, don't make a blockgame!'"  Nixinova   T   C   19:35, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That seems to indicate the founding from the early access was indeed used to finance Hytale and there was no other game before it. I found some forum posts indicating that the upcoming 2014 game would be announced in 2016, but no reliable sources for now. :( [EDIT] I'm the original asker, IP got changed. 2A02:A03F:3A06:9D00:E457:B2BA:97CB:71AF (talk) 08:10, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
After one week of searching, I finally found a contemporary source, *HOWEVER THIS SOURCE IS NOT RELIABLE FOR WIKIPEDIA*. I can personally confirm that was really what was shown on the store at the time, sadly I'm not a reliable source either. I'll link it here for future reference in case an editor needs clarification about "selling early access as part of a donor package". The screenshot comes from a "rant" forum post. https://hypixel.net/threads/mvp-sucks.70397/ Web Archive link : https://web.archive.org/web/20200505080352/https://hypixel.net/threads/mvp-sucks.70397/ I REPEAT : this source is not reliable, the source currently used in the article is the owner's forum response after the Hytale announcement. 2A02:A03F:3A4B:9900:E813:6487:F9:2EE6 (talk) 08:05, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for finding that source, it's very useful to know about.  Nixinova   T   C   22:29, 5 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

page protection?

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Ex editor here, haven't edited in a long time, but hytale is really growing and 1/6 of the edits were reverted, and 6/11 of the reverts are done with wp:tw, or similar software, and nearly every one of the reverts is from IP editors. so maybe semi-protect? Forgot about the policies.2001:569:712D:E700:D86D:77E8:F1D0:85BF (talk) 07:31, 4 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2021 release?

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This edit:[1] put "Release: 2021" in the infobox after an IP removed it.

The only source we list for that date is from 2019, well before the acquisition and before the Covid-19 Pandemic.

WP:CRYSTAL says "Wikipedia does not predict the future." and "Individual scheduled or expected future events should be included only if the event is notable and almost certain to take place". Given the history of the industry, I don't think any future video game release is "almost certain to take place".

December 2020 Development Update says:

"To be clear, then: we don't currently have a launch plan for Hytale. When we do, and we're confident in it, we'll tell you - and we'll be as specific as we possibly can be. We know that there's a tendency to make predictions about possible release dates based on all sorts of signs and symbols, from job listings to our accounts getting verified on Twitter."

It also says:

"while our remote structure has provided some resilience in the face of the COVID-19 pandemic, we've definitely felt its effects" and "it's important to be open about the fact that we've not been able to operate at 100% capacity in 2020. After all, who has?"
" That was a prediction that didn't work out - the features we had in mind simply aren't ready to make their debut"
"[In 2020] Almost every part of the game, including many aspects of gameplay that have already been revealed, has been taken back to the drawing board, rethought, and in some cases overhauled."

My conclusion: Unless someone has a post-April-2020 source showing Hytale predicting a ship date, the date in the infobox should be left blank. --Guy Macon (talk) 03:18, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also see: Hytale Update Dismisses Release Date Rumors --Guy Macon (talk) 03:31, 21 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
They said in 2019 the release date was 2021. They haven't rescinded that at all. So 2021 should stay until they say otherwise. And we especially shouldn't be psychoanalysing the blog post for hints as that WP:OR here. That second quote is also out of context; it was for gameplay reveals, not the release date. That GameRant article is a good summary; no launch plan, not date.  Nixinova   T   C   19:02, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nixinova, technically they said they hope to "have the game playable" by 2021. That could simply have meant a closed beta or something. I won't really oppose removing it from the infobox until we get more concrete info. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 23:21, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No, they said "playable by everyone in 2021".  Nixinova   T   C   23:28, 22 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

RfC: Hytale video game release date

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Should Wikipedia include predictions about when the Hytale video game will be released? Guy Macon (talk) 02:38, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Background:

  • Hytale is a highly anticipated game that will be similar to Minecraft.
  • In November of 2019, The Hytale development team said "We’ve previously said that Hytale will be ‘ready when it’s ready’ because we’re serious about providing the community with a game that meets their expectations. We can now be a little more specific. Factoring in the scale of the project and the high bar we want to hit, we’re planning for Hytale to be playable by everyone in 2021."[2]
  • In April of 2020 Hypixal Studios was acquired by Riot Games.[3][4]
  • In December of 2020 The Hytale development team said "To be clear, then: we don't currently have a launch plan for Hytale. When we do, and we're confident in it, we'll tell you - and we'll be as specific as we possibly can be."[5]
  • WP:CRYSTALBALL says "Wikipedia does not predict the future."

Guy Macon (talk) 02:38, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Survey: Yes. CRYSTALBALL does not apply and Wikipedia should include this prediction.

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  • Yes. They said "playable by everyone" by 2021, in 2019, and their latest statement does not override that. They said they have "no launch plan" and then go on to say they'll be as specific as possible regarding release info. I really don't think theyd rescind a release date in the same sentence as that. Anyway we shouldn't be psychoanalysing the blog post, what do RSes say about their analyses of the post.  Nixinova   T   C   04:23, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    "Planned to be playable by everyone" is not a firm release date. And how does their latest statement not override that? enjoyer|talk 04:42, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm saying the two announcements aren't mutually exclusive. My main reasoning is they would say they were being as clear as possible in the same breath they make an incredibly vague announcement.  Nixinova   T   C   06:49, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, sure. (Summoned by bot) I mean, just saying the list is prose would be fine: "In November of 2019, The Hytale development team said "We’ve previously said that Hytale will be ‘ready when it’s ready’ because we’re serious about providing the community with a game that meets their expectations. We can now be a little more specific. Factoring in the scale of the project and the high bar we want to hit, we’re planning for Hytale to be playable by everyone in 2021." In April of 2020 Hypixal Studios was acquired by Riot Games. In December of 2020 The Hytale development team said "To be clear, then: we don't currently have a launch plan for Hytale. When we do, and we're confident in it, we'll tell you - and we'll be as specific as we possibly can be."
What's wrong with that? The people did say what you said they said. Right? And surely this would be interest to readers accessing this article. We're not saying "In the spring of 2021, the Hytale development team will probably have more announcements". That would be crystalballing. And we're not giving these dates in our own voice, we're not flat saying "The game will be delivered before the end of 2021"[ref]. That would be speculating.
WP:CRYSTALBALL says that we should avoid speculating, assuming, or predicting. It doesn't say we shouldn't quote people who are. Maybe the person speaking is dead wrong, but we quote all sorts of people who are dead wrong, racists and what have you.
You'd have to really squint to find anything in WP:CRYSTALBALL that says not to do this. CRYSTALBALL has 5 numbered points. Points 2 through 5 don't apply at all (Don't have individual items from a predetermined list or a systematic pattern of names; don't do extrapolation or speculation or and "future history" (Weapons that will be used in World War Three); don't jump the gun on scientific theories; and don't have short articles that consist of only product announcement information.
That leaves just numbered point 1, which does say "scheduled or expected future events should be included only if the event is notable and almost certain to take place. It isn't almost certain that the game will ever be released. The company might go bankrupt or something. However, enh. Even if that happens, we'll probably still have the article ("Hytale was a much-anticipated game which was never released...") and that matters.
Besides which, come on, it's an OK little article. 440 people a day are reading it. Most of those people will be interested to see this material. It's reffed. We're not misleading them or being overly promotional. I don't see any harm to the reader in including this material. Do you? If you can tell me "Including this material will be a net negative to readers who have searched on the term 'Hytale' and chosen to read the article, because ____________". If you can put something compelling in the blank, I'll change my mind. Can you? Herostratus (talk) 10:37, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes (Summoned by bot) Of course CRYSTALBALL doesn't apply. This is a corporate statement of the kind frequently utilized in articles. Coretheapple (talk) 14:24, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Yes, of course - we should briefly list all the relevant statements, both the initial plan and later statements updating it. The fact that it seems to have been delayed is noteworthy and belongs in the article; it makes no sense to omit it entirely. More generally this seems like a severe misunderstanding of CRYSTALBALL - we are not supposed to speculate; but articles can (and should) include statements of future intent or plans by relevant people when it relates to the subject. Planned release dates, including successive release dates or announcements that change the timeline or which alter previous statements, are obviously part of that. I'm a bit baffled that this is even being asked - including projected release dates is common practice for articles on just about any sort of upcoming media. --Aquillion (talk) 19:36, 6 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Survey: No. CRYSTALBALL applies and Wikipedia should not include this prediction.

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  • No A 2019 "we’re planning for..." statement does not override a 2020 "we don't currently have a launch plan for Hytale" statement. Since the 2019 statement, Hypixal studios has been affected by a pandemic, ("The pandemic isn't the only factor that has made this a challenging year, but it's important to be open about the fact that we've not been able to operate at 100% capacity in 2020. After all, who has?") been acquired by another company, and has clearly stated "Earlier in the year, we said that we were reassessing every aspect of Hytale to ensure that it was on track to reach its potential - we weren't joking about this. Almost every part of the game, including many aspects of gameplay that have already been revealed, has been taken back to the drawing board, rethought, and in some cases overhauled. We want to ensure that all of Hytale's systems are coherent, fun, and advance the genre in meaningful ways." Guy Macon (talk) 02:38, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • No This is a case where we have a clear update that overrides a prior claim of a planned release date with a "TBD" date. We go with the most recent information and thus should have no specific release in the lede or infobox, though certainly we can add this information into the development section to explain it was once planned in 2021 but that appeared to have changed after acquisition by Riot. --Masem (t) 02:47, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • No In 2019 they said "playable for everyone in 2021" but then, in 2020, they said "we don't currently have a launch plan for Hytale" and "we've not been able to operate at 100% capacity in 2020." While they weren't as explicit as they could have been, I think it's clear that whatever plan they had for a 2021 launch was disrupted by the pandemic such that they can't commit to a 2021 release anymore. It would seem a bit silly to list the 2021 date in light of this so, for that reason, I vote no. DocFreeman24 (talk) 02:53, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, the release is uncertain, so obviously there should not be a firm release date or year in infobox. The old information must be put in the development section like Masem said. enjoyer|talk 03:02, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, as their original statement was more of a prediction than a hard release date and/or window. We should not be misleading people into thinking it's 100% coming this year, at least not until they re-confirm it. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 19:35, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • No. There was 2021 release date, now there is no release date. Include no release date for primary info (lead, infobox, category, current estimate in prose). That is, the diff in question should not be included. But do include earlier prediction in prose as part of development history; the way it is now looks fine. —  HELLKNOWZ   ▎TALK 00:16, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • No - Since there's no new official set date and it's contentious, it's best to avoid it (for both readers and the publishers). If I decided what WP allowed, any "upcoming" game or movie would be excluded as articles even, considering that what is available are mostly promotional WP:PRESSRELEASEs. —PaleoNeonate – 03:03, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, considering that there's no certainty concerning the release date.Idealigic (talk) 16:52, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, as the 2021 launch plan almost certainly changed. The pandemic and to a lesser degree the Cyberpunk 2077 launch fiasco convinced many game studios to push releases further down the line and be less assertive when it comes to announcing and committing to a launch date. A 2019 mention of a 2021 launch superseded by a 2020 statement saying that they don't have a concrete launch plan is as clear an indication that the initial goal has shifted as you can get. This turn of events can be presented in a sentence or two in the Development section (as it is now), but no launch date should be added to the lead or the infobox or whatever. That being said, I hope I understood this RfC correctly and this isn't about removing that sentence from the Development section, which is not something I support. PraiseVivec (talk) 12:58, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • No, relating just a promotional prediction is not desireable. Per CRYSTALBALL, "Individual scheduled or expected future events should be included only if the event is notable and almost certain to take place." and "Wikipedia is not a collection of product announcements and rumors." If there was some partial release or some lawsuit or controversy about the release date, then the date might validly be a part of a factual tale. But it sounds like just stating a date with no reason and with no real expectation that it will be done on that date, so not useful to mention. Cheers Markbassett (talk) 14:31, 19 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Threaded discussion

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I'm not sure I understand what are considered "predictions", or what the vote is for exactly? Whatever plans they had for 2021 were clearly abandoned given their recent statement, so having that date in the infobox or having "expected to be released [..] in 2021" in prose is factually incorrect. I think the history should be explained in prose exactly how you so eloquently explained it in the bullets above. In brief, they did have plans for 2021, but now they do not. TarkusABtalk/contrib 03:14, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

You can find the exact wording we are talking about in this diff:[6]
Thanks for noticing that the infobox had a release date. Good catch! I just fixed it. --Guy Macon (talk) 03:33, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
OK yea. Their more recent statement of "we have no launch plans" overrides any plans they previously claimed, so the 2021 plans should no longer be considered in the works. That being said, it's still fair game to say 2021 was the plan at one point, and it should be explained like it was in this RFC. TarkusABtalk/contrib 03:47, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Guy Macon, can we use that blog post as a citation for the "delay"? I know we shouldn't use primary sources but there gotta be some occasional exceptions. enjoyer|talk 03:48, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
This is just my opinion, and I invite others to weigh in on this, but I just don't see the release date that they said they were shooting for in 2019 as satisfying WP:WEIGHT. I realize it was exciting news for the fans, but I simply don't see anyone else caring about a video game company announcing a possible release date and then later saying that they no longer have a release date. --Guy Macon (talk) 05:43, 3 February 2021 (UTC) Struck because we now have sufficient sourcing. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:13, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I struck my comment above. Both statements now use secondary sources. enjoyer|talk 06:59, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
What we have now is fine I think. Explanation on both announcements in the development section, nothing overly conclusive in lead.  Nixinova   T   C   06:48, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I also think that what we have now is fine. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:13, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Also want to say that Crystal does not apply to anything here. The headers should be on whether to put the date conclusively not throwing around a completely meaningless CRYSTAL discussion because it absolutely doesnt apply.  Nixinova   T   C   00:37, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I agree but I don't think it would change anybody's opinion, really. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 02:05, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Source for the Northern Ireland Game Awards?

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The current source for the NIGA is Hytale's Twitter. Isn't there an official list of winners somewhere that could be used as a source? 193.191.221.210 (talk) 13:04, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I took the liberty of changing the reference, if for some reason Hytale's self-announcement had information missing from the NIGA announcement, feel free to revert 193.191.221.210 (talk) 13:12, 31 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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