Talk:Ice drilling

Sources to go through

• Clarke, Garry K.C. (1987). "A short history of scientific investigations on glaciers". Journal of Glaciology. Special issue: 4–24.
• Jouzel, J. (2013). "A brief history of ice core science over the last 50 yr". Climate of the Past. 9 (6): 2525–2547. doi:10.5194/cp-9-2525-2013.
• Langway, Chester C. (January 2008). "The history of early polar ice cores" (PDF). CRREL Report (TR-08-1): 1–47.
• Talalay, Pavel (2016). Mechanical Ice Drilling Technology. Beijing: Springer/Geological Publishing House.
• Ueda, Herbert T.; Talalay, Pavel G. (October 2007). "Fifty Years of Soviet and Russian Drilling Activity in Polar and Non-Polar Ice" (PDF). Erdc/crrel Tr-07-20.
• Zagorodnov & Thompson (2014). "Thermal electric ice-core drills: history and new design options for intermediate-depth drilling". Annals of Glaciology 55(68) pp. 322-330.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:39, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

More:

• https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1410/1410.5267.pdf and footnotes 10-12 in that.
• http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/abstract/document/1389506/
• http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2014/ph241/dunham2/ -- student coursework but has some refs that may be relevant for planetary exploration ice drilling
• http://www.jstor.org/stable/24363797?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
• http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0165232X15001858
• http://arctic.journalhosting.ucalgary.ca/arctic/index.php/arctic/article/viewFile/2425/2402
• https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/handle/1811/6039 -- Polar Oral History Program

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:56, 19 September 2017 (UTC)

Also should review list of ice cores, and the Talalay Russian ice drilling bibliographies from icedrill.org. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:55, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

• Gillet 1975 J. Glac Steam, hot-water and electrical thermal drills
• https://www.shf-lhb.org/articles/lhb/pdf/1962/02/lhb1962014.pdf

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 00:17, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

Note that Aamot 1968 is a good source for the issue with refreezing of meltwater behind thermal drills in cold ice. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 14:31, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

Also need to use Aamot 1968a to expand the discussion of Philberth probes. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:56, 22 October 2017 (UTC)

From Shreve & Sharp (1970), two paragraphs of refs to prior papers:

Deep holes have been drilled into glaciers to obtain samples (Langway, 1958, p. 337; Miller, 1958; Patenaude and others, 1959 ; Ragle and others, 1960 ; Kamb and Shreve, 1963[a], [b] ; Shreve and Kamb, 1964 ; Gow and others, 1968), to determine ice thickness (Mathews, 1959, p. 448- 50; LaChapelle, 1965, p. 609- 12), to locate englacial and subglacial streams, to measure temperatures (Ward and Orvig, 1953, p. 160) and closure rates, and to determine the variation with depth of the component of flow velocity perpendicular to the hole. This last is essential for testing proposed flow laws for glacier ice, for evaluating the constants in these laws, and for determining the velocity of slip of the glacier on its bed.

The first hole intended for determining flow velocity at depth was drilled by Louis Agassiz in the Unteraar Gletscher around 1840 (Forbes, 1859, p. 55). Since then bore holes for this purpose have been made in Austria on the Hintereisferner (Blumcke and H ess, 1909; H ess, 1933, p. 42- 43), in Switzerland on the J ungfraufirn (Perutz, 1949, 1950; Gerrard and others, 1952), in Alaska on Malaspina Glacier (Sharp, 1953, 1958, p. 638- 41 ) and Taku Glacier (Miller, 1958), in Canada on Saskatchewan Glacier (Meier, 1960, p. 28- 32), Athabasca Glacier (Savage and Paterson, 1963 ; Paterson and Savage, 1963[b] ; Savage and Paterson, 1965), and Salmon Glacier (Mathews, 1959), and in Norway on Austerdalsbreen (Mcmbel's of the Cambridge Austerdalsbre Expedition, 1958, p. 398; Ward, 1961 ).

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 23:24, 23 October 2017 (UTC)

Also the seven international workshops. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:32, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Sources to request at WP:RX

• Kasser, P. 1960. Ein leichter thermischer Eisbohrer als Hilfsgerät zur Installation von Ablationsstangen auf Gletschern. Geofisica Pura e Applicata, Vol. 45, No. 1, pp. 97-114. Note Shreve has a review in J. Glac. that provides quite a bit of information, but he says Kasser has been using this equipment since 1950, without giving more information.

-- Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:00, 16 October 2017 (UTC)

• Heuberger JC (1954) Glaciologie. Groenland, vol I: Forages Sur L'Inlandsis. Jean=Charles. Expéditions Polaires Françaises. V. Paris, Hermann & Cie (in French). Recounts the EPF drilling experiences from the late 1940s and early 1950s. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:49, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

Notes

Blümcke and Hess (1899) mention a drill von Drygalski used in Greenland; this is not mentioned in Talalay. The source says: "Herr Prof. Frhr. v Richthofen, damals II. Central-Präsident des D. u. Ö. A.-V., brachte unseren Bemühungen, einen möglichst günstig wirkenden Bohrer zu construieren, grosses Interesse entgegen. Er übersandte uns einen von E. v. Drygalski auf dem Inlandeis in Grönland verwendeten Bohrer, der uns insoferne gute Dienste leistete, als wir die praktisch construierte Schneide desselben nachahmten und einen Spiralbohrer anfertigen Iiessen, der zwei gezahnte Schneiden und grosse Festigkeit hatte. Ein schwächeres, nach Art des Drygalski'schen Löffelbohrers gebautes Werkzeug musste wegen Formveränderung nach kurzer Benützung ausgemustert werden. Mit unserem zweischneidigen Bohrer konnten wir in zwei Stunden 3 m Tiefe erreichen.". Per Google Translate: "Prof. Frhr. v Richthofen, then II. Central President of D. u. Ö. A.-V., met with great interest in our efforts to construct a drill which was as favorable as possible. He sent us one from E. v. Drygalski on the inland ice in Greenland used drills that served us well insofar as we mimicked the practically constructed blade of the same and made a twist drill, which had two serrated cutting edges and great strength. A weaker, built in the manner of Drygalski'schen spoon drill tool had to be retired because of change in shape after a short use. With our double-edged drill we were able to reach 3 m depth in two hours."

So there are two drills; one is the spoon-borer that Talalay mentions; the other is not. The source for von Drygalski's Greenland expeditions in Talalay is "Kalesnik SV (1963) Ocherki glatsiologii (Sketchbook about glaciology). Moscow, Geografgiz (in Russian)". Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:50, 4 November 2017 (UTC)

What is the FD-32 core that Mackinnon mentions as having been drilled in Greenland in 1953? He gives no organization for it. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 02:33, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Peer Review

Two things stood out for me right away: 1.) The article seems to lack an introduction. 2.) The first two sentences are in "passive voice."

On the plus side, the piece seems very thorough, well researched and well-cited.

This is my first peer review, so I'm keeping it short in case I'm doing something wrong (and if so, please advise.) BudJillett (talk) 03:28, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments. I've reworded the first sentence so it has a bolded "ice drilling" at the start; it's not required for an article to do that but it's a good idea when possible. I also got rid of the passive voice in the first sentence, but I think it's necessary in the second one. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 11:27, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

You're welcome. The article starts off 1000% better, I think, now that you've restated the subject and gave a little overview. Night and day. Good job. Some people avoid passive voice altogether, which I think is also a mistake. A good use for passive voice is when the thing acted upon would be overpowered by having a strong subject at the beginning of the sentence. In the second sentence you might be able to make a case for that, but I still think the meaning will be clear with an active subject. Something like:

"Field scientists (or whatever you call them) place instruments in the drilled holes to record temperature, pressure, or to gather other scientific data (fixed the end of the sentence, too).

OR: "to gather scientific data, such as temperature and pressure."

Thoughts? BudJillett (talk) 17:09, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

I'm hesitant, because it's not only scientists that drill through ice. It's only mentioned a couple of times in the article, but ice fishing is a big reason for the sale of ice augers like the one pictured. I also thought of something along the lines of "Instruments placed in the holes can record temperature..." but it's not really much better and reads a little less fluently to me. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 20:22, 31 December 2017 (UTC)

Record

This page holds the record of most times as a featured article, doesn’t it? Cowboysfan3214 (talk) 01:20, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, no. This article was only promoted to featured article status for the first time last March, and this is the first time it has been on the Main Page as today's featured article. Mz7 (talk) 08:18, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Second. Cowboysfan3214 (talk) 14:29, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Ice-core image

The lede image is File:GISP2D1837 crop.jpg, which goes horizontally. The article is about the drilling, not ice core, and the goal is to illustrate drilling down not across. Why is the lede image not actually about drilling (some pretty photograph of apparatus, maybe)? And why, if an ice core is to be used, is it not vertically like its native position in relevance to the drilling of it? Even the caption as it is does not say which end was top (or was which year of history), so it is not clear how this maps to a timeline, which is the reason for doing the core in the first place. DMacks (talk) 14:44, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

It's horizontal because if you put it vertically it's so narrow that the caption looks horrible. If there's a good way to fix that, I agree it would be better vertical. I hadn't thought about giving the details of the years; that can probably be found in the relevant papers. I also agree a nice picture of modern drilling equipment (say something from here or here) would be great, but there's nothing that's justifiable as fair use, as far as I can see. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 16:26, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

@Mike Christie: I agree that this is extremely unappealing. The first few words of the article are jumbled together so far I see only one word per line, literally. How about we just put the image at the top of the page? PseudoSkull (talk) 17:08, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

If any significant number of viewers are seeing it that way, I agree it should go, but I'm surprised because even on my mobile phone I get either several words to the left of the image or else (in mobile mode) the image is at the top by itself. I'd be fine with just deleting the image; it's illustrative of the reason for drilling, but it's not critical for understanding the article. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:18, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

How about File:ACFEL ice auger core remover barrel.jpg (currently in the § Core retrieval section)? To the lay reader's eye it looks like some sort of drill thing, but with maybe a cylinder of something extra? Exactly!--that hooks the reader into something nice-looking and semi-familiar. Even nicer if we could rotate it 90° clockwise so (as before) it's orniented with the core in its native orientation. DMacks (talk) 21:03, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

And would File:Drilling mechanical-drill-head.jpg (color and high definition) be a good replacement for File:ACFEL ice auger shoe side view.jpg (black and white, and weird glare that obscures the central hole) for the § Cuttings and meltwater section? DMacks (talk) 21:05, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Both seem good to me. Can you make the changes? I’m at JFK which is IP range blocked; I’m VPNed into my work computer to post this but it’s not a great connection. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 21:32, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

 Donex2. I also synced the (now)-lede caption with the image-description page (mentioning the ice core itself that is visible). I found an alternate place for the previous ice-core image also. DMacks (talk) 22:02, 29 June 2018 (UTC)

Source

See this paper; was the source for "Come up with a much faster drill that can analyze ice as it goes down, and doesn't need to bring cores back up", which would fit better here. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 22:52, 18 February 2020 (UTC)