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Errors in the summary of the featured article

Please do not remove this invisible timestamp. See WT:ERRORS and WP:SUBSCRIBE. - Dank (push to talk) 01:24, 29 September 2022 (UTC)

Errors in "Did you know ..."

Current DYK

Admiral King

• ... that it was said Admiral Ernest J. King (pictured) was so tough he shaved with a blowtorch?

"It was said" is a blatant weasel which invites a {{who}} tag. I checked on this "popular myth" and find that the article gets it wrong. It says "I understand", Walsh told King, referring to a popular myth, "that you shave with a blowtorch." This supposed quotation appears to be wrong as another source closer to the event tells the story differently:

When another member of the party, who had apparently been well stuffed with stories by Captain Deyo between Washington and Kansas City, asked King if it were true that he was so tough that he had to shave with a blowtorch, Walsh seized upon the idea with delight.

So, by that account, it was "another member of the party" and/or Captain Deyo who said this. As the accounts differ, this is not a definite fact. The one thing that seems certain is that Admiral King did not, in fact, shave with a blowtorch. I therefore suggest this as an ALT:

• ... that Admiral Ernest J. King (pictured) did not shave with a blowtorch?

References

Andrew🐉(talk) 09:31, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

• I have tweaked this back to more close to the signed off hook, which made clear this was a "popular myth" rather than anything remotely factual. I've also chopped the "so touch that" bit, because that isn't in the article at the location in question. It mentions him being "tough" elsewhere in the article, but that's not sufficient to link it in the hook to the blowtorch shaving IMHO. I don't really know why the "popular myth" clarifier was removed, since its addition in ALT1 was an integral part of the path to the hook being signed off. Courtesy pings to @Hawkeye7, Jeromi Mikhael, Narutolovehinata5, Hey man im josh, and Ganesha811: who were involved with this hook. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 10:22, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

  Circling back to this again, I see there was also some discussion after the nom sign-off regarding whether "popular myth" was accurate. I'd note that the second source (Klug) does say this, although the first source attributes it to a Bob Rice, who "winced" when the blowtorch myth was mentioned to King. So it's sort of complaint with WP:V with the current wording, and without even the merest implication that the blowtorch story was true. If this isn't satisfactory though, I'd think we might need to pull it. The proposed hook above saying merely that he didn't shave that way seems rather odd to me, and even that isn't explicitly what's I'm the article as we're told it was an "exaggeration".  — Amakuru (talk) 10:49, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

  I agree that this one is tricky - as you mention, I had an issue with the way it was worded, and discussed with Hawkeye on the article's talk page here. I wanted to make sure that the hook matched what was actually in the article + sources. I agree that the current hook is weasely, but I think that's a lesser sin in a DYK hook than in article prose. —Ganesha811 (talk) 11:41, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

  I'm not convinced by this "lesser sin" theory. WP:DYKHOOK states that

  The wording of the article, hook, and source should all agree with each other with respect to who is providing the information – if the source is not willing to say the fact in its own voice, the hook should attribute back to the original source as well.

  Attributing to a weasel doesn't seem adequate. Andrew🐉(talk) 12:20, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

  This isn't even a "popular myth", it's just a colorful figure of speech. --User:Khajidha (talk) (contributions) 12:26, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

  Well, fair enough, that seems clear. It's trickier to get the hook wording right here because there's a specific incident (the blowtorch story being mentioned to King) and the much more nebulous reality that there was a running joke/story about King that he shaved with a blowtorch, which is what the hook is intended to describe. NPS (the source used the War College web journal source) put it as "of whom it was said", which is just as indirect. —Ganesha811 (talk) 12:31, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

  It sounds like we're getting close to considering pulling this, or at least finding something non-blowtorch related if that can be done. Ultimately it looks like this whole thing is just a humorous anecdote amongst King's friends rather than anything really tangible anyway, so while it's a funny metaphor, it's probably not that useful as a hook.  — Amakuru (talk) 12:36, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

  I think the hook made more sense as a whole when the blowtorch story was merely the illustrative example for the fact that King was "so tough", but I raised the issue on the article talk page about whether we could call King "so tough" in Wikipedia's voice, given the sourcing in the article. With that absent, the hook is a little thin, yes. I don't see much point in pulling it, personally, since I don't think there's anything inaccurate in it at present, but I'm not a DYK regular, so not sure how these things usually go. —Ganesha811 (talk) 13:57, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

  Oh well I'll leave it for now then. If there are strong objections still then I can do some switcherooing...  — Amakuru (talk) 14:03, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

  Nebulous reality? -- Sca (talk) 12:36, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

  Nebulous as in poorly covered/described by the available sources. But clearly the story/joke existed or he wouldn't have been asked about it by Walsh. —Ganesha811 (talk) 13:55, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

  OK - in the sense of indefinite. -- Sca (talk) 14:08, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Billie Eilish

• ... that Billie Eilish first served "Lunch" during a private party at Coachella?

Never mind the cringeworthy cutiness of the wordplay, but what was "private" about her DJ set on a festival? The sources don't seem to indicate that it was backstage or invitation-only or some such? Fram (talk) 10:19, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Yikes, should not have approved that using the provided source - although NME describes it as a 'secret Coachella DJ set'. This should probably be added to the article though.--Launchballer 10:33, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

 Fixed. I've removed the "private" qualifier and also added to the article that it was a "party", something that seemed to be missing before.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:23, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Next DYK

Adnan al-Bursh: "an" should probably be in the link (an Israeli prison) because it's referring to a specific prison.:Jay8g [V•T•E] 06:10, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

 Done – Schwede66 09:11, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

The article has duplicate information and is on Israel/Palestine. I don't think his death would have been posted via ITN so it needs more scrutiny if it is going through the easier DYK route. Secretlondon (talk) 12:39, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Errors in "On this day"

Tomorrow's OTD

For the July 3 birth/death line, the William Jones (mathematician) article gives his death date as both 1 July (offline reference from this edit) and 3 July (no reference). `Art LaPella (talk)

The sources can't seem to make up their mind, but with the Dictionary of National Biography entry using 1 July, I think there's enough uncertainty to justify pulling it. Extraordinary Writ (talk) 05:58, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Replaced with Lisa Kahn (GA). Black Kite (talk) 07:19, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Errors in the summary of the featured list

Friday's FL

(July 5)

Monday's FL

(July 8)

Errors in the summary of the featured picture

Notice to administrators: When fixing POTD errors, please update the corresponding regular version (i.e. without "protected" in the page title) in addition to the Main Page version linked below.

Today's POTD

• Per WP:OVERLINKING, please delink Canada. Abductive (reasoning) 00:07, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

   Fixed – Schwede66 13:21, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

General discussion

Straw poll

Would most people be willing to entertain a weekly article for improvement on the main page? Several kinks must be worked out, but I think it would be a great idea (well duh, I'm the guy bringing it up...) Bremps... 03:46, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

I'd be open to exploring that. Schwede66 04:38, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

Some previous discussion here and here Art LaPella (talk) 04:49, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

It's nice that there's been some precedent. Do you know if that ever panned out? Bremps... 06:53, 1 July 2024 (UTC)

There was a "Today's Article for Improvement" section added to the main page for a few weeks in 2013. It didn't last long and was pulled in May 2013. The subsequent discussion is here. Stephen 07:41, 1 July 2024 (UTC)