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Requested move 17 August 2021

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 03:41, 31 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sean O'Malley (fighter) → Sean O'Malley – No other pages are called Sean O'Malley. However there is a page titled Seán Patrick O'Malley so I'm not sure I can count this as uncontroversial. ♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 00:17, 17 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

If thats the case we should change his page to Seán O'Malley (cardinal). ♡RAFAEL♡(talk) 14:52, 18 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Not necessarily, as he is referred to in different publications as both Seán and as Seán Patrick. But that doesn't mean that the fighter is primary for Sean O'Malley. That's not how disambiguation works. -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:03, 19 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 26 September 2021

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved Sean O'Malley→Sean O'Malley (fighter) and dab page created at the base title. No such user (talk) 10:27, 11 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Sean O'Malley → Sean O'Malley (fighter) –
The previous move was wrongly decided using rationale that was extremely weak under the relevant policies and guidelines. From a basic standpoint: Seán Patrick O'Malley is the primary topic for Sean O'Malley, but he is referred to using his full name because of WP:CONSISTENCY–Wikipedia pages on Catholic bishops use their full name. That as a project we have chosen one style for Catholic bishops does not mean that they cease to be the primary topic for their common name.
First I'll both rebut the natural disambiguation argument

See also these other stories from major publications calling him Sean O'Malley:

These above sources should be enough to rebut the basis of the above move that there is a natural disambiguation: there is not. Cardinal Sean O'Malley is not written as Cardinal Seán O'Malley in any major English-language publication in his home country, and the middle initial is only used because of the NYT house style, which would not make it common either.

Next, the issue of WP:PRIMARYTOPIC needs to be addressed, while Google hits and page views are useful for contemporaries in the same field, they are not useful when comparing current entertainment figures to historical figures of long-term significance, even if both are living people at the same time. Primary topic contains two definitions of primary, the second one is applicable here: long-term significance. To put this in context, Cardinal Sean O'Malley is arguably the most significant figure in the Catholic Church's response to the child sexual abuse crisis. He was appointed Archbishop of Boston by John Paul II after the Cardinal Law scandal, and has served as the Catholic Church's point person for the response to the sexual abuse crisis within the United States and globally ever since. He was a major contender to be elected Pope in 2013, and outside the Church has served as one of the primary back channels between the US government and Cuba.

It's not an overstatement to argue that people will be writing academic books on him in a century. This isn't just a random prelate, it's one of major historical importance.If you want contemporary documentation of his historical importance here's a selection:

This is just in the last decade. If you go back to 2003, you will find many stories about his response to the Cardinal Law scandal in Boston.

To put it bluntly, the Cardinal is the obvious primary topic based on long-term significance: his role in the US and globally both inside and outside the Catholic Church will be analyzed for decades if not centuries to come because of his role in taking over Boston after Cardinal Law, and because of his later influence in the Catholic Church with in that regard.

Even if we don't buy that he is the primary topic, the MMA fighter certainly isn't, and the default would be to have no primary topic rather than move one of lesser long-term significance to it.

The other arguments about natural disambiguation have also been refuted above. As that seemed to be the basis for this move, the obvious solution is to undo it and restore the status quo, with a potential discussion on where the redirect should point to happen after. TonyBallioni (talk) 17:50, 26 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Disruptive editing

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Many users are vandalizing this page and changing the record. Use the official decisions only. Vajra Raja (talk) 05:37, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

MMA record at end is incorrect

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Missing the Marlon vera loss and accidently says he is undefeated still. Someone should add to the table 72.66.72.130 (talk) 18:36, 25 December 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Request move to Sean O'Malley again?

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When is the timeframe to request a move again? It was changed to a DAB page in September 2021, but the views for the fighter are overwhelming with over 2000 views a day. I do not agree with the person who proposed the move to change it back to a DAB page as Wikipedia is about the present and I highly doubt that the cardinal has long-term significance as the poster referred to outdated articles. Anyone can appear on outdated articles whereas the fighter is highly relevant at this point in time. Marty2Hotty (talk) 15:07, 31 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2 February 2022

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Megan B.... It’s all coming to me till the end of time 17:39, 3 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

– The fighter has an overwhelming number of page views: https://pageviews.toolforge.org/?project=enbaike.710302.xyz&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&range=latest-20&pages=Sean_O%27Malley_(fighter). Dating back to 2017, the fighter gets 2500 daily views compared to the cardinal who gets 100. The fighter is the primary topic and even though this was discussed in September 2021 to revert to a DAB page, Wikipedia's intent is to get readers to the correct article. A hatnote linking to the cardinal will be sufficient. The arguments listed in the September 2021 proposal is subjective, as news articles were referenced. To counter, hundreds of articles on the fighter could be used as well. Marty2Hotty (talk) 14:05, 2 February 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. Skarmory (talk • contribs) 06:07, 24 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose per last fall's RM, where we got the current titles and OP was the only dissenter. While O'Malley the fighter has the pageviews advantage, Sean Patrick O'Malley has the long-term notability, thus no primary topic. 162 etc. (talk) 16:56, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment I do not think the cardinal has long term notability. The fighter will be fighting for another ten years and continues to build his name. In the long run, the cardinal will continue to get fewer views, in my opinion. The fighter is clearly the primary topic. I do think since there are only two people with this name, getting the reader to one of the two reduces a click. As the fighter outdoes the cardinal by over 25 times a day, I do think it is a better decision to give him the article "Sean O'Malley". Marty2Hotty (talk) 13:12, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment I understand you, Marty2Hotty, are a mma editor and has been going around request page name change for mma fighters as per primary topic. Pls note mma fighters are only primary topic for a few years or 4-5 years and only a very small number fights and still have a lot of view in 10 years. Long term notability does not just for 1-5 years, pls stop request for mma fighters page name change every week. Do understand Wikipedia a an enclyopedia and not just favour name change just because of short term view page and dont make an existing disamb page to another disamb page. Cassiopeia talk 20:57, 3 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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What is his connection to been Irish 139.216.255.136 (talk) 19:49, 28 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 29 October 2022

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I would like to suggest you add a loss to Mr. O'Malley's record. This loss comes officially at 01:30AM on Saturday 29th October 2022 to THE MMA GURU on YouTube. Guru bodied Mr. O'Malley in his current most recent video "Sean O'Malley Roasted Me? Now I'm Roasting Back! Sean O'Malley vs The MMA Guru Is Official!". Guru verbally assaulted Mr. O'Malley so badly in this video O'Malley must have a loss added to his record, via KO (Wheelchair).

This may seem like a joke/troll, but I am deadly serious. Please watch this video and determine for yourselves if it should be added officially (it should be). 82.0.74.187 (talk) 00:40, 29 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

 Not done: For one, a "verbal assault" doesn't mean anything in regards to win-loss stats. And even if they did, it would probably be best to only include official events in statistics, which this video certainly isn't. SkyWarrior 00:45, 29 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

New champion

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He's the new champion, hasn't been updated yet 120.18.12.253 (talk) 05:41, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Move to "Sean O'Malley"?

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People on here have insisted that the catholic priest who averages 90 daily views compared to the now current bantamweight champion of MMA who gets 3600 views a day is the primary topic. Maybe two years this was debatable, but I think the fighter here will be much more significant than the priest in the long run as well. https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=enbaike.710302.xyz&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&range=latest-20&pages=Sean_O%27Malley%7CSean_O%27Malley_%28fighter%29 Look at the views. Do you think another move request is warranted now?? Marty2Hotty (talk) 10:18, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'll vote yes if it gets nominated. Nswix (talk) 15:48, 8 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
it was nominated a few times but the last time it was nominated, he was not champion, which he is now. is it allowed to be nominated again? that catholic priest is NOT notable to the same extent as the fighter contrary to the long post made above. Marty2Hotty (talk) 21:14, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Worst thing they can say is 'no', which I can't see happening. Nswix (talk) 21:43, 13 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Look above. They veto'd the suggestion a few times, but in two years, O'Malley has become a bigger star including champion. Perhaps, you should request it this time. Marty2Hotty (talk) 13:50, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please be sure to notify the people who took part in the previous discussions to see whether their view remains the same - they are mostly active editors, I'm sure they would appreciate the notification. Girth Summit (blether) 13:59, 17 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One of you should submit the nomination. O'Malley's article was changed, reverted back to the catholic priest, switched again and once again back. Since then, O'Malley is the champion with even more views than before and is on the cusp of main eventing a big event. The priest goes by "Sean Patrick O'Malley" as well. Please submit the request. It has been two years and it is allowed to be requested. Marty2Hotty (talk) 13:20, 20 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
For your information, there is a name change request for this article if you are interested in participating in. Thanks in advance. Marty2Hotty (talk) 01:26, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 5 March 2024

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. Further evaluation at a later date may be required to weigh between the notability/long-term significance of either articles. – robertsky (talk) 23:55, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

– It is time to have this conversation again two years later. This was requested by a few users. In two years, the fighter has become the UFC bantamweight champion and gets 6000 views a day. Sean Patrick O'Malley, the cardinal and only other person named Sean O'Malley, has 0 views a day for the past 90 days and has averaged 0-1 views over the past 15 months. When people search Sean O'Malley, they are searching for the fighter. https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=enbaike.710302.xyz&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&range=latest-20&pages=Sean_O%27Malley_%28fighter%29%7CSean_Patrick_O%E2%80%99Malley <-- See page views. Having "Sean O'Malley" be the page of the fighter and having hatnote saying "For the cardinal, please see Sean Patrick O'Malley" will suffice as this will only be one click away from the cardinal's page anyway, should someone actually want to view his page. Currently, "Sean O'Malley" goes to the DAB page which requires another extra click to get to either the fighter or the cardinal. I think having readers get to the page they want to is important and it's clear that the fighter *now* is the primary one. Marty2Hotty (talk) 14:19, 5 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • As described in WP:DPT, we can also look at the clickstreams, in this case at WikiNav for this list where we can see 130 incoming views, and could identify 111 outgoing views, of which 93 went to the figher (~71% or ~84%) and 18 to the cleric (~14% or ~16%). I think this is still a borderline case of primary topic by usage, because of two things: firstly, we see a very good click through rate, so we're not actually losing a large amount of readers with the list; secondly, the minority topic is still easily measurable even if the interest in it is not comparable - it's not clear that the average English reader associates the term so strongly with just one topic, so there is a risk that the standard of primary topic is not really met.
    Another interesting statistic is Google Trends for these topics, which are both identified by the search engine, and the ratios are similar, though it's interesting to see that the search terms the readers there used to get to the cardinal were largely very generic and did not include the distinguishing word Patrick at all.
    So there needs to be a discussion on long-term significance. Luckily because it's only two topics, hatnotes might work in any case, but I'd still lean towards no action actually being necessary to improve readership outcomes. --Joy (talk) 13:56, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Pure WP:RECENTISM. Per long-term significance, a cardinal and archbishop is clearly just as notable (if not more so) than an MMA fighter. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:49, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Suga or Sugar or Both

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With all due respect, Suga is his actual nickname. As referenced by UFC.com/ESPN.com, His Instagram Page and his Shop sugashop.co. On my talk page, someone said ESPN/UFC used "Sugar" but this has since changed. It says "Sugar" on Sherdog and on Facebook, but on all his merchandise, it's Suga and it's referenced on https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=230&v=M75nXrxK6mw Best Bets as well. A recent UFC.com article from a day ago refers to him as "Suga": https://www.ufc.com/news/sean-omalley-vs-marlon-chito-vera-fight-timeline-ufc-299. Tapology refers to him as Suga: https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/fighters/68186-sean-omalley. His sponsor's page with his merch refers to him as Suga: https://happydad.com/collections/suga-sean. How much more do we need? He is also known as "The Suga Show". Can these be left under his nickname? Or at least both? Please discuss. Why would this not be allowed?

His personal Twitch account: https://www.twitch.tv/seanomalleyufc/about - puts "Nickname Sugar/Suga" as his nickname. So both are fine. Can "Suga" please be added? Sources were added but were removed saying Sherdog has him as Sugar but not referencing why references above didn't suffice.

Marty2Hotty (talk) 23:13, 8 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think it's well established enough in multiple places to say Suga. Anyone who hangs out here enough knows Sherdog isn't infallible. Nswix (talk) 01:04, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]


@Marty2Hotty and Nswix: Hi Marty2 Hotty, all the sources you provided beside Tapoloy is either not independent or not reliable. All nicknames for mma fighters based on Sherdog as default. If we keep on changing the sources from Tapology to Sherdog, then we would have a lot of revert, edit warring. Sherdog listed him as suga and recently changed to sugar. So we stick to that. Cassiopeia talk 02:57, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
https://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Sean-OMalley-135099 Sherdog has just updated it to Suga as of yesterday, so I will update it. Marty2Hotty (talk) 11:04, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It has since been updated to Suga correctly. So, those that use Sherdog has to abide by this. I personally think both can be listed. But needless to say, it's officially fixed. Unfortunately, the cardinal will prevent this fighter from getting his own article without the 'fighter' bracket haha.. but whatever.. Marty2Hotty (talk) 11:08, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am watching the Ceremonial Weigh-Ins directly from UFC - https://www.youtube.com/live/tL5u6QZ4K8I?si=U0-ltDnhFMzFFeBz&t=355 It says "Suga". I am still shocked that this was even a discussion for all this time. Sherdog is a site where people can submit corrections and I would think official sources like personal accounts, the company who signed the talent and even networks are strong enough sources, haha, but whatever. Just happy this is fixed finally. Marty2Hotty (talk) 13:31, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Marty2Hotty I saw Sherdog changed again to Suga. We go by Suga. Btw all utube, social media is considered not independent and UFC and ESPN on UFC are considered not independent and not to be used in articles. Thank you for your contribution. Cassiopeia talk 20:00, 9 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Record is incorrect

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O'Malley lost to Vera in their first fight. No idea how it's listed as a NC according to the Suga(?) State Commission. Come on man. 207.66.73.253 (talk) 22:51, 10 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

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