Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/HMS Pearl (1762)/archive1

The following is an archived discussion of a featured article nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The article was promoted by Gog the Mild via FACBot (talk) 23 November 2020 [1].

HMS Pearl (1762)

Nominator(s): Ykraps (talk) 17:38, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This article is about a Royal Navy frigate from the age of sail. She fought in the American and French Revolutionary Wars, although her part in the latter was less interesting, mainly confined to the more mundane frigate duties. Relegated to harbour roles in 1804, she was eventually sold in 1832. The article has been expanded significantly since it achieved GA in May 2018. There was a peer review in August this year and the article recently passed an A class review. Thanks in advance, Ykraps (talk) 17:38, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

SG comments

MOS:DONTHIDE in the Prizes section.
Done - That was a suggestion in a previous review but if the guidelines want it open, I'm happy to oblige.--Ykraps (talk) 04:59, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Check MOS:CAPTION punctuation on image captions.
Done (I think) - I assume you're referring to full stops. I would say all the captions are complete sentences so have added to all. Let me know if you think otherwise or if I've missed anything.--Ykraps (talk) 04:59, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Please use the trans-title= parameter on citation templates to help the reader out with a translation of non-English titles.
Done - Didn't know there was such a thing so thanks for pointing it out.--Ykraps (talk) 05:12, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
What is a slop ship? Does it need an article and a wikilink? (Ah, now I see it is defined much later, as a note to the last paragraph. Please define earlier, and we probably need a red link.)
Changed in the lead to, storeship for sailors' clothes. I see User:Peacemaker67 has also commented on this subject so I'll ping you if anything changes as a result. I don't think it's anything more than a dictionary definition so a red link is probably inappropriate. A sentence or two in the storeship article is a possibility.--Ykraps (talk) 14:44, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Now I know! Thx, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:07, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
WP:OVERLINK; why do America, New York and Mediterranean need to be linked?
I consider those to be highly ambiguous, particularly America, which is often used to refer to the United States of. I have rewritten to say American continent and removed link. As the state didn't exist at the time and it makes little difference whether Pearl was sent to the basin or the sea, I have also removed the links to New York and the Mediterranean respectively.--Ykraps (talk) 15:50, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"clear and obvious" mistake is probably redundant.
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 16:06, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Competent article, worthy candidate. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:08, 14 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the review. If you spot anything else that needs attention, please add above.--Ykraps (talk) 16:08, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for addressing all of this; I don't have time for a more in-depth review, but we are good on the ship jargon, accessible to lay reader score! Best, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 16:29, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by PM

With the disclaimer that I am not an age of sail guy, I did look at this closely at Milhist ACR, and all my comments there were addressed. I have some additional points:

Lead

this may have already been resolved in earlier reviews, but why no "fifth-rate" in the lead? I understand rating was an important distinction is age of sail ships.
The rating system was based on the number of guns so calling her a 32-gun frigate is a more detailed way of marking her as a fifth rate. In addition she is noted to be of the Niger class; all fifth-rate frigates. I am not entirely against adding fifth rate to the lead but I fear it will turn the opening sentence into a sea of blue. Her rating is mentioned in the construction and armament section so isn't entirely missing from the article. I am happy to consider any suggestions but, as I said, I'm having difficulty fitting in another blue link.--Ykraps (talk) 05:30, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

what about "HMS Pearl was a fifth-rate 32-gun Royal Navy frigate of the Niger-class", which divides up the sea of blue? Or lengthening the sentence, it is quite short for a first sentence. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 07:31, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done - I don't know why I couldn't see that solution.--Ykraps (talk) 06:34, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

at the time, Arbuthnot was actually Vice-Admiral of the Blue Squadron, not a full Admiral
Of the White, I think, but yes, that's a fair point. I have changed to Vice-Admiral in all instances. At the time, Admiral was, and to some degree, still is, a generic term for any type of admiral. Admiral, on its own, without any qualifier, wasn't a rank back then, so any contemporary sources, such as the one I took the information from, will use it loosely.--Ykraps (talk) 06:09, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
why is the link to Battle of Cape Henry piped to "first battle of Virginia Capes"? Is the former at the wrong title?
They are alternative names for the same battle. I think the latter is more usual in British English and was the term used in the source.--Ykraps (talk) 06:09, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've removed the pipe link, which I think now is what you were driving at.--Ykraps (talk) 06:43, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
perhaps say "where she served as a clothing storage and distribution ship, known as a slop ship, then as a receiving ship."
I thing this has been resolved following a comment from User:SandyGeorgia.--Ykraps (talk) 06:09, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
is the bolding of Protheé really justified, as it isn't a significant alternative name, she was just a hulk at this stage?
To be honest, I don't know. Initially it wasn't but I was asked to do it at ACR. Happy to go with your thoughts.--Ykraps (talk) 06:09, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don;t think it meets the criteria of significant alternative name, so I would unbold it. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:55, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done.--Ykraps (talk) 20:34, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Infobox

drop the 0 inches on the Depth of hold
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 06:48, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
not sure about the need to abbreviate quarterdeck and forecastle
That was inherited when I first copied the infobox from a similar article (rather than build it from scratch). I had always assumed that was the style but after checking a few more articles, it doesn't appear to be so I have written in full. Thanks, I will look out for that in the future.--Ykraps (talk) 06:48, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Body

link Beam (nautical)
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 06:48, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
piping ARW to revolutionary war is a bit Easter-eggy
Done - I was trying to avoid the repetition of America/American in the sentence but I guess it's not so bad.--Ykraps (talk) 06:39, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
say where Kip's Bay is, ie move the link the New York up
Done but not linked - Another reviewer thinks the linking unnecessary.--Ykraps (talk) 06:39, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
fifth-rate/fifth rate is duplinked (one is a redir), and I would have thought it should be mentioned and high up in the Construction and armament section
Done - One link removed and the other moved higher in the previous section.--Ykraps (talk) 06:39, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
say HMS Renown was fourth rate, and provide the rate of HMS Repulse
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 08:04, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
link Sloop-of-war
Done--Ykraps (talk) 08:04, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
was HMS Perseus also a post ship? Say Camilla was a post ship and link
Yes. Done.--Ykraps (talk) 08:04, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
say where Lewes is ie Delaware
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 08:04, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
not sure why you use "the Continental schooner Mosquito" rather than "the schooner USS Mosquito", I am not familiar with the use of Continental to refer to the US navy in the ARW, perhaps I am not the only one? The use of Continental occurs later as well. If it is preferred, then perhaps introduce USS Lexington as "the Continental Navy 16-gun sloop USS Lexington" which will make things clearer.
Mainly because I wanted to introduce a link to the Continental Navy. Referring to it as a Continental schooner makes the USS prefix rather redundant but if you think it's clearer, then okay. I have moved Continental Navy to before USS Lexington (retaining the prefix) and added USS to Mosquito.[[2]] --Ykraps (talk) 08:04, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Works fine now. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 09:55, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

say Bombay Hook is in Delaware
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 08:11, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Down to Assault on Philadelphia, more to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 03:37, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

say that the Battle of Brandywine was in Pennsylvania
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 08:42, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
say Billingsport is in New Jersey
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 08:42, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
say that HMS Augusta was third rate
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 08:42, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
link Hulk (ship type)

Done.--Ykraps (talk) 08:42, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

say that Gloucester is in Massachusetts
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 09:14, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
is there a link for Sandy Hook? Which colony?
Added link to Sandy Hook and located in New York Bay.--Ykraps (talk) 09:14, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
say that Newport is on Rhode Island
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 09:14, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Barrington was a rear-admiral, not a full admiral, as far as I can tell from a quick look. Also say that he was the c-in-c of the Leeward Islands Station.
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 09:57, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
link Barbados at first mention
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 09:57, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
link Leeward Islands
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 09:57, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
link Island of Dominica
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 09:57, 18 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't quite understand why Commodore is linked at first mention, but admiral ranks are not
I wanted to emphasise this was a rank and not a courtesy title given to the senior captain. I have removed. Unless you want me to link all ranks?--Ykraps (talk) 16:41, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would link all ranks at first mention. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:49, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done.--Ykraps (talk) 07:28, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

the para starting "With the arrival of winter..." doesn't actually mention Pearl as part of Barrington's force, so it isn't clear why it is in the article
It was written in that vague fashion because sources differ as to when Pearl joined the action. I have rewritten; see what you think.[[3]] --Ykraps (talk) 19:12, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine now, if still a little vague. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:49, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

say HMS Sultan was third rate
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 16:41, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
describe HMS America
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 19:13, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"with the 74-gun third rate HMS Robust"
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 19:12, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
same point about Arbuthnot
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 19:12, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
link Conanicut Island
Conanicut Island already linked in Assault on Philadelphia section.--Ykraps (talk) 16:41, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
redlink French frigate Esperance?
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 16:41, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"after which the French~~man~~ship"
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 16:41, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
same question about Battle of Virginia Capes and Battle of Cape Henry
Done?--Ykraps (talk) 19:42, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
move link to Long Island to first mention
Sorry, can't find an earlier mention. I'll look again.--Ykraps (talk) 19:42, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Now found and done.--Ykraps (talk) 07:09, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"one 74-gun third rate ship, HMS Culloden" and insert a comma after Culloden
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 19:42, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
for leaned away, link Sailing#Heeling
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 19:42, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
link line of battle
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 19:42, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
the link to Delaware will need to move up to where you first insert the colony
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 19:42, 19 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
describe HMS Iris
Do you want me to describe her in terms of her armament or as the ex-American frigate, Hancock?--Ykraps (talk) 07:09, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

guns. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:49, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Done.--Ykraps (talk) 07:28, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Down to Mediterranean service and the outbreak of war. More to come. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:08, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

what sort of ship was HMS Flora?
Added.--Ykraps (talk) 07:34, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
italicise Régénérée in Note 4
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 07:34, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
link brig at first mention
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 07:34, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
say what sort of ship HMS Hindostan was
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 07:34, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
link Alicante
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 07:34, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
no redlink for Lutine?
Added.--Ykraps (talk) 07:34, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
instead of Malta (the country article), use Malta Protectorate
Good suggestion. Done.--Ykraps (talk) 18:24, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
instead of Egypt (the country article), use Egypt Eyalet
Ditto. Done.--Ykraps (talk) 18:24, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"her former captain, ~~George~~ Elphinstone"
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 18:24, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
the medal was the Naval General Service Medal (1847)
Link added.--Ykraps (talk) 18:24, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
what sort of ship was HMS Santa Theresa?
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 07:33, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ditto HMS Minerve
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 18:24, 20 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
say where Porto Ferrajo is, ie on Elba and link (removing later link)
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 07:10, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"to retreat to Leghorn, in the Kingdom of Etruria, a French client state."
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 07:10, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
say that HMS Pomone and HMS Phoenix were frigates
Labelled as fifth rates to avoid repetition.--Ykraps (talk) 07:10, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
same for Succès, Bravoure and Carrère
Already noted as frigates: "The two escaped frigates..." and "Pearl sailed to cut off the frigate..."--Ykraps (talk) 07:10, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
suggest "Pearl and Pomone, the ships of the line Renown, Gibraltar, Dragon, Généreux, and Stately, the tender Alexander and the brig Vincejo,"
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 07:10, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
suggest explaining what the Treaty of Amiens did, ie end the French Revolutionary Wars
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 20:34, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
better explanation of slop ship per lead
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 20:34, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not sure sure if the Prize table is undue given the space it takes up and the fact that the important ones are already included in the text and it is therefore a repetition in many cases. You could just summarise it in a Prizes section using text by flag, ship type and number, even if you split it up into chronological periods. I haven't reviewed many age of sail ships, so I'm not sure about what the expectations are.
I would consider the taking of a prize to be a major detail. Where there is enough information for a narrative, I have inserted into the text but when the only details are 'Pearl captured X' the prose becomes monotonous. I took the idea of a table from another featured article, HMS Levant (1758). I have tried dividing the table up, as you suggest. See what you think.--Ykraps (talk) 20:34, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's marginal, but not enough of an issue for me to withhold support. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:49, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I would like to keep the table, if only to prevent well-meaning editors from later jamming in the information with little regard for the prose. If it's mentioned by another reviewer, I will reconsider it's importance.--Ykraps (talk) 07:28, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's me done. I haven't looked at the sources or done any spotchecks, I'll leave that to the source reviewer. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 10:00, 16 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A couple of minor things to do. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 08:49, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Peacemaker67:, I think I've attended to those points now. Thanks for your thorough review.--Ykraps (talk) 07:34, 23 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

@SandyGeorgia:, @Peacemaker67:, I confess that I wasn't expecting any feedback for a while so have been caught at a rather busy time. Thanks for your prompt attention and I will endeavour to answer all your points as quickly as possible.--Ykraps (talk) 15:43, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

No worries ... I am heading off for the cabin in the woods myself. And nothing I mentioned is urgent. Bst, SandyGeorgia (Talk) 15:55, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, no issue. I’ll finish up and wait for a ping when you’ve had time to address my comments. Peacemaker67 (click to talk to me) 21:13, 15 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Kreggon

There are two citations with wrong dates: 38 and 44. There are also several identical citations that should be combined, e.g. 76 and 110 are referring to the same document and the same page. I think there are more, so they should all be checked. Kreggon (talk) 09:43, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I think I got 'em all.--Ykraps (talk) 22:51, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Image review

Some images are missing alt text
Added.--Ykraps (talk) 06:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
File:HMS_Pearl_and_Santa_Monica_Azores,_1779.jpg: source link is dead, needs a US PD tag
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 20:58, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
File:Bataille_de_Sainte_Lucie_1778.jpg needs a US PD tag. Ditto File:Dominic_Serres_-_Captain_George_Montagu_of_the_'Pearl',_32_guns,_engaging_the_Spanish_frigate_'Santa_Monica'_off_the_Azores,_14th._September_1779.jpg
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 20:58, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
File:HMS_Pearl_vs_Esperance.jpg has three of the same licensing tag but is missing a US PD tag
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 20:58, 21 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
File:Flag_of_the_Kingdom_of_the_Two_Sicilies_(1816).svg: one of the provided source links is dead, and should include a copyright tag for the original design. Ditto File:Pabellón_sencillo_de_la_Armada_de_España_1701_1785.svg.
As these are faithful reproductions of designs that are over 200 years old, I think they are considered public domain under US law. I have added a US-PD tag.--Ykraps (talk) 06:59, 22 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Nikkimaria (talk) 21:15, 17 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Nikkimaria, are you content with Ykraps' responses? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 10:41, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes. Nikkimaria (talk) 13:40, 18 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments from Mike Christie

I'm copyediting as I read through; please revert anything you disagree with.

More of a question than an issue, but I noticed when following the link to Niger-class frigate that Pearl was ordered on the same day as HMS Emerald (1762). Is it worth mentioning that Pearl was one of two ships ordered at that time?
It wasn't unusual for multiple ships of the same class to be ordered at the same time but I think it's interesting and worth mentioning. Done.--Ykraps (talk) 06:06, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
She was recommissioned the following month under John Leveson-Gower, then Sir Basil Keith in November. I think a word is missing here; as it stands this reads as though she was recommissioned again under Sir Basil. Perhaps "who was succeeded by Sir Basil" or "replaced by"?
Yes, although commissioned might simply mean having a commission for, so if you think it reads or flows better saying succeeded that’s okay with me. Done.--Ykraps (talk) 18:33, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Between April 1770 and January 1773, Pearl spent time on and off the Newfoundland station, under first John Ruthven and then James Bremer. She then sailed for Portsmouth where she underwent repairs and then a refit, at a total cost of £9,008.15.11d. The combined works took until February 1776. Lots of "thens"; I copyedited it a bit but I think a little more is needed. Do we know if she was under Bremer's command when she sailed for Portsmouth? Or the approximate date she sailed? Either bit of information would let us copyedit this a bit: perhaps "and then James Bremer, under whom she sailed for Portsmouth in about 1775" or something along those lines.
I've removed two more.[[4]]--Ykraps (talk) 18:33, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
~~You have "landings at Kips Bay" but our article has "landing"; is this a typo or are both normal military usage?~~
I think it’s more an Engvar thing; British sources tend to say landings but again I’m not precious about it.--Ykraps (talk) 18:33, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
She took part in the landings at Kip's Bay, New York, in September, escorting transports along the Hudson River before creating a diversion in the North River. Reading through the paragraph, I think you could cut this sentence completely. It tells us what's about to happen, but then you give the details again: I followed the link to the landings and then came back to the article thinking the narrative was moving past that, only to realize you were describing the landings. It would read more naturally to cut that sentence, perhaps with a little rephrasing of the remainder of the paragraph, and link to the Kips Bay landing article when the landing itself is described.
I have rewritten the paragraph here.[[5]] Is that any better?--Ykraps (talk) 18:33, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
where a large earthworks and gun battery protected a channel, blocked with a submerged cheval de frise. The impediment comprised large wooden frames, filled with stones and fronting iron-tipped spears. If we're going to describe the cheval de frise in this detail I'd suggest either cutting the term ("...blocked with large wooden frames, filled with...") or making it clearer that this is a definition: "...with a submerged cheval de frise—large wooden frames, filled with...".
There were many ways to construct a cheval de frise so I think the definition is needed and have therefore gone for your second suggestion. Or I could put in a footnote.--Ykraps (talk) 18:50, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
She came up with her objective at 09:00, which fought for an hour and a half before striking her colours. The prize turned out to be the Industry, an American frigate of 26 guns operating under a letter of marque. I think this would read better with the prize named earlier. How about: " The vessel turned out to be the Industry, an American frigate of 26 guns operating under a letter of marque; Pearl came up with her at 09:00, and the Industry fought for an hour and a half before striking her colours." And is the Industry worth a red link?
I've rewritten somewhat differently here[[6]] but the vessel has been identified earlier as you suggest. See what you think. The red link was added at the request of another reviewer, who felt the size of the vessel warranted it.--Ykraps (talk) 19:04, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
On her return to the American continent: this paragraph has the same issue as the one about the Kips Bay landing; I think you could cut the initial summary of what's about to happen. It's out of sync with the purely chronological narrative that the article follows almost everywhere.
Rewritten here.[[7]] See what you think.--Ykraps (talk) 19:38, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
~~The Admiralty made another attempt to dispose of her on 4 January 1832, when she sold for £1,230.0.00d.: I wouldn't say "attempt", since it was successful.~~
Changed to 'eventually disposed of'.--Ykraps (talk) 20:05, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I haven't read much about naval engagements of this era, so this may be a silly question, but is Pearl's list of prizes unusually long, particularly for a relatively small ship? Was she unusually successful? I ask because no comment to that effect appears in the article and I wondered if that's because her record is not remarkable, or if it's an omission in which case it might be worth mentioning.
Not especially, some frigates were more successful and others less so. The smaller frigates usually took more prizes than the larger ships-of-the-line which were slow and were often limited to prize taking in, few and far between, fleet actions. The prize taking frequency was dictated by a frigate's role as much as anything else – one escorting a convoy on a long journey or scouting for an enemy fleet, would not have the same opportunities as one on blockade duty. Frigates were faster and better armed than heavily laden merchant ships, which were easily caught and readily surrendered.--Ykraps (talk) 20:05, 26 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Overall the article is in good shape; just a few points above. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 17:39, 25 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Changes look good. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 01:28, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Many thanks.--Ykraps (talk) 06:10, 27 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CommentsSupport by CPA-5

At the moment I just claim my seat here. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 22:19, 6 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

HMS Pearl was a fifth-rate, 32-gun Royal Navy frigate Maybe add British here?
Done - Although I think that British can be inferred from Royal Navy.--Ykraps (talk) 16:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
British fleet that captured the island of St Lucia From whom?
Done - France.--Ykraps (talk) 16:43, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Niger-class frigate designed for the Royal Navy Same as above.
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 16:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Maybe introduce Thomas Slade?
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 16:37, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I see a lot of "Pearl"s next to each other; per WP:SHIPPRONOUNS we should balance the name of the ship, "she/her" (or it/its) and "the ship/ship's".
Swapped quite a few here, [[8]] here [[9]] and here. [[10]] --Ykraps (talk) 18:50, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
125 feet 0 1⁄2 inch (38.1 m) along the gun deck, 103 feet 4 3⁄8 inches (31.5 m) Per MOS:UNITNAMES long units should be abbreviated after their first use. I think this also includes two units combined like this. This also means all the other "X feet X inshes" should be abbreviated after this sentence.
Done - Abbr parameter added to templates on subsequent mentions.--Ykraps (talk) 16:57, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
she had cost the Admiralty £16,573.5.4d Link pound and "d".
I've linked to £sd, which seems most appropriate and covers both.--Ykraps (talk) 06:19, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
and Camilla captured and burned the schooner --> "and Camilla captured and burnt the schooner"
I was taught (more than 40 years ago) that burned was the past tense of the action to burn and burnt was the past participle of the adjective, burn. I have burned the toast and now it is burnt. However, having done some online research, it appears there is no longer any difference and both are acceptable.--Ykraps (talk) 06:19, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

There's still a difference between both of them. "Burnt" is more popular in the UK than in the US. Look at a couple of British dictionaries Cambridge and Lexico even Learner's Dictionary says so. Per MOS:COMMONALITY we should use the common word in that English style.

Done - Although ngrams appears to indicate the opposite.[[11]] --Ykraps (talk) 17:22, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hmm interesting this could have the same situations as the "-ize" and "-ise".

spotted Camilla some 6 nautical miles (11 kilometres) away Add miles, unlink and abbreviated km.
Not entirely sure what you're asking here. The template can't handle more than one conversion so are you asking to use miles instead of nautical miles?--Ykraps (talk) 06:19, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I've done it for you. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 14:49, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Link Province Island.
There isn't a link for this Province Island. The nearest would be New Sweden which covers an area too large to be useful. Province Island is labelled in the image opposite.--Ykraps (talk) 19:20, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
was seen off Sandy Hook in New York Bay Which New York Bay? The link goes to the lower one?
Changed link to go straight to Lower New York Bay.--Ykraps (talk) 19:20, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Down to Operations in the West Indies. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 11:33, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@CPA-5: Have you got any more comments for me? Thanks.--Ykraps (talk) 06:25, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Am working on it.

hick fog some 40 nmi (74 km) off Cape Henry No miles?
Done. --Ykraps (talk) 19:17, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
and the 8-gun American Senegal of 50 tons What kind of "tons"?
Link added. --Ykraps (talk) 19:17, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Per this we should specify and write always the specific "tons" fully.

Done. --Ykraps (talk) 17:22, 17 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

some 200 nmi (370 km) off the west coast No miles?
Done. --Ykraps (talk) 19:17, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
following year when France declared war on Britain Pipe "France" to the First French Republic.
Done. --Ykraps (talk) 19:17, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
preparation for an invasion of Egypt Maybe add "Ottoman" after "Egypt"?
Before? --Ykraps (talk) 19:17, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
destroyed Bravoure after she had run aground.[Note 6][91] Switch the note here since the whole article uses citation then note thereafter.
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 19:17, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Pearl requested she join her --> "Pearl requested she joins her"
I think join is correct in this context. It was the action that was requested.--Ykraps (talk) 06:16, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
After a two hour fight Hyphen is needed here since this is a compound adjective.
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 06:16, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
the British fifth rate --> "the British fifth-rate"?
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 06:16, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
yard and fore yard had been shot Not foreyard?
Done. --Ykraps (talk) 19:17, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
While cruising with the 32-gun fifth rate Not "fifth-rate"?
Done.--Ykraps (talk) 06:16, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That's everything from me. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 15:15, 10 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks CPA-5, your comments were very welcome.--Ykraps (talk) 06:16, 11 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi CPA-5: are your comments all satisfactorily addressed, or do you have more to come? Cheers. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:05, 15 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

CPA-5 Are we all good here now? Regards --Ykraps (talk) 17:14, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I think we are. Cheers. CPA-5 (talk) 18:23, 19 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments on the sourcing

I note that in the References section some sources have OCLC, some ISBN, some more than one ISBN and some both OCLC and ISBN values. I take all these books are reliable sources? B/c with some of them it's not clear what their publishers' and authors' credentials are. The citations seem to be consistently formatted with the required information. Is a spotcheck needed? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 12:27, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I've removed the extraneous ID numbers, which was the result of some sloppy copy and pasting. Not all books have an ISBN number, particularly older books that haven't been reprinted. As per WP:Citing sources I have included an optional ISBN or OCLC number. As far as I'm concerned all the sources are all reliable secondary sources. Which ones are causing you concern?--Ykraps (talk) 18:29, 7 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I was mostly wondering about Robert Beatson, Allen, Joseph and David McCullough. Are these good authors for books on naval warfare? Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 11:47, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Joseph Allen was a naval historian and biographer [[12]] McCullough is more of a popular historian but his book on the American Revolutionary War is not used to source anything controversial. McCullough's claim that Pearl escorted troopships along the Hudson and caused a diversion for the landings, is backed up by Beatson, who may not be a naval historian but his books are widely regarded and praised for their accuracy.[[13]] His Naval and Military Memoirs of Great Britain is often referred to by both William Laird Clowes and Alfred Thayer Mahan. --Ykraps (talk) 16:20, 8 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'll take that then. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 09:05, 9 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi Jo-Jo Eumerus, should this be taken as a source review? Or is it more by way of a drive by comment? Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 16:29, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]
More like a drive by comment, although you can treat this as a source review if a spot-check isn't needed. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 16:44, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jo-Jo Eumerus: Apologies for coming back at you again. No, spotchecks are not required. It is more a case of whether you consider that it meets the FA criterion. (If you were saying that you think it does then apologies if I am being slow on the uptake/overly cautious.) Thanks. Gog the Mild (talk) 17:59, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'd say it meets the FA criterium, with the caveat that not being familiar with the topic area I can't tell whether it meets NPOV. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk) 19:17, 14 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FAC/ar, and leave the {{featured article candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through. Gog the Mild (talk) 15:44, 23 November 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.