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Stockport County F.C.

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Article (edit | visual edit | history) · Article talk (edit | history) · Watch • Watch peer review

I've listed this article for peer review because, I would like some guidance and assistance in making Stockport County FC primarily a Featured Article but also to generally improve the article overall.

Thanks, Wna247 (talk) 20:37, 14 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Kosack

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I'll take a look at this later today, but a quick point that you can't run an FAC and a peer review simultaneously. So it would be best to request a closer of the FAC to avoid a clash. Kosack (talk) 06:14, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, Right no worries. Unsure how to close a Featured Article nomination. Struggled with the Good Article process a few years ago but managed it eventually. This is really the only page (along with Stockport's seasons pages) that I edit when it can. Appreciate your assistance. Wna247 (talk) 11:33, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You can just leave a note, possibly even tagging one of the coordinators, that you wish to close it and they'll pick it up. Kosack (talk) 11:58, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Lead

  • There is a mix of singular and plural when referring to the club itself in the text. The opening  paragraph of the lead is a prime example as we begin with "Stockport County Football Club is a professional..." before the last sentence adds "They have played at Edgley Park..." Stay consistent in your usage.
Had a go at trying to fix this Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The lead seems to suffer from a little WP:RECENTISM. Around half of the lead covers 1990 onwards with no real mention of the Century prior to this.
Unsure with what I could change here. Correct me if I'm wrong I believe the lead is meant to be a short summary of whats in the article. I have had a go at changing things, shortening the lead a bit but let me know if anything else needs changing. Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The lead is indeed meant to be a summary of the article, but the lead barely mentions anything before 1990. If anything, I would be looking to add more information to the lead rather than taking away. Ideally, you're looking for a balanced overview of the club. As an example, see Luton Town F.C. which has two nicely laid out paragraphs of history and contains major events from the club's entire history. Kosack (talk) 18:10, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Ok I have tried to add things to the lead to broaden it out a little to include league championships won pre-1990 - if you feel more needs to be added let me know Wna247 (talk) 12:40, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link League Cup in the second paragraph.
Done Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

1883–1930

  • Just a query, but should it be McLaughlin's cafe?
ChangedWna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The second sentence doesn't really work, as after the list of names, it begins with and.
Changed "and" to "Stockport" Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Can't say I'm a fan of mid sentence ref placements.
Moved to end of the sentence Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link FA Cup.
Linked Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The third paragraph a little short and single sentence paragraphs should generally be avoided, especially when looking at FA status. I would try and work this into the text or look to expand it.
Moved the sentence to the end of paragraph 2 Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "gained 22 votes and therefore re-elected", something missing from this sentence.
added "keeping their football league status." after "re-elected" Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The inclusion of Thomas Evans seems a little odd. Is he particularly notable?
Book Stockport County: A Complete Record has Thomas Evans listed as Tommy Evans. Only notable mention of Tommy was after a 5-2 win against Leicester at their Filbert Street ground he was involved with crowd trouble. Other than that he made 75 appearances and he career was cut short because of the war. Left it in for now but happy to remove. Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
If you do wish to keep the info, the opening sentence is a little off grammatically. "Stockport goalkeeper played for the club between 1913–1915", doesn't really flow. Kosack (talk) 20:04, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Changed and also included the bit mentioned about about the crowd in a match again Leicester City however feel that it could be classed as being trivial. Wna247 (talk) 12:40, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "where he severed in the Army", served surely?
Changed Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I believe Great War should be capitalised.
Changed Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Linked Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The sentence about the 1920-21 season and placement in the Third Division North could be split. It's a little confusing right now.
Broke up this sentence and changed it a bit. Let me know of any further amends Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unlink Lincoln City, per WP:OVERLINK, links should generally only appear once in the main text.
Done Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No Wiki page for Joe O'Kane? Why was he so influential?
Looking at the records he was Stockport's top goalscorer in that particular season but was only at the club for two seasons, Removed this sentence from the article Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This is the only time in history Stockport has achieved a better place finish than Manchester United", why is that relevant? The source doesn't support it either.
The source is of the league table from that season shows Stockport in 13th and United in 14th. But I agree its probably not very noteworthy. Changed this to talk about Ernest Barlow who was elected as club chairman, held the role for 30 years according to Stockport County Complete history Book as sourced in the article. Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Link Harry Hardy.
Done Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "while on Stockport's books", a little informal. I would go with simply "while playing for Stockport" or "while a Stockport player".
Done Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I would turn the sentence about Hardy touring Australia into a footnote rather than including it in the text here.
Footnote added Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "1925–26 saw Stockport returned to the bottom division", doesn't quite work.
Changed to say "Third Division North after finishing bottom of the Second Division" Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "but suffered a 2-point deduction", suffered doesn't sound like the right word given that it was  for an indiscretion. Received, perhaps?
Changed to "Received" Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Linked Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "it was a memorable season, but one that in the end had been disappointing", bordering a bit on personal opinion I would say.
Removed sentence Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "won nine of their last 11 matches", generally we should avoid switching between numbers and digits in the same sentence when the items are comparable.
Changed "11" to "eleven" Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Linked Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd split Newton's 5 goal haul into a separate sentence so it reads easier.
Split this sentence up. Any other amends however just let me know Wna247 (talk) 15:01, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

This is what I've picked out from the lead and the opening section. It looks a lot, but there's nothing that involves huge changes. Kosack (talk) 12:00, 15 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

1930-1950

  • "saw them achieve 115 goals", achieve doesn't sound quite right here. Scored would work better.
Changed to "score" Wna247 (talk) 13:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "to making the score 2–0 at half time", sentence doesn't quite make sense.
  • Link Percy Downes.
Linked Wna247 (talk) 13:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Hill completed his hat trick on 51 minutes also Percy Downes made a notable performance scoring four of Stockport's goals on this day", this sentence is a bit choppy. Perhaps "Hill completed his hat-trick on 51 minutes while Percy Downes also scored four of Stockport's goals"?
Changed Wna247 (talk) 13:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This record victory still stands as a Football League record", is it a Football League record or just a club record? It sounds like the former right now.
It is still a football league record. Stockport were the first 13-0 winners but the record is jointly held now.
Linked Wna247 (talk) 13:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Another record that still stands in the club's history", join this obto the previous section using a comma. It doesn't really work as a standalone sentence.
Changed to comma instead of full stop. Wna247 (talk) 13:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unlink Edgeley Park.
Changed Wna247 (talk) 13:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "burned down in a fire", drop in a fire. I don't think there's another way to burn down.
Removed "in a fire" Wna247 (talk) 13:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unlink Lincoln City.
Unlinked Wna247 (talk) 13:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Stockport had a ten-game unbeaten run" > embarked upon a ten-game...?
Changed to "embarked on a..." Wna247 (talk) 13:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "finished 22nd out of 22 in the Second Division"> bottom of the Second...
Changed Wna247 (talk) 13:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "During the 1939–40 season football was stopped" > During the 1939–40 season, the Football League was suspended
Changed Wna247 (talk) 13:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "This was because most British men were sent to the army", this can probably be dropped. I think the reader will understand the impact it would have.
Removed Wna247 (talk) 13:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Amend the Rochde link to A.F.C. rather than F.C.
Amended Wna247 (talk) 13:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "this match would go down in history", go down in history sounds rather sensationalist.
Changed to "was reported". Let me know if it needs adjusting further Wna247 (talk) 13:58, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • On a side note, I'd suggest requesting a copyedit at the WP:GOCE. The more eyes you can get on it before another nomination the better. With the backlog there, it'll probably be a week or so before it gets picked up. Kosack (talk) 19:06, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Copy edit has been requested Wna247 (talk) 20:19, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

1950–1999

  • Hat-trick is used in the previous section. Move the link to the first usage rather than here.
Link changed Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "three of which were consecutive", do you mean they were scores in consecutive matches? If so, I'd write it like that to be clearer.
It was a Hat trick in 3 matches one after another.
  • "and the Tranmere Rovers", drop the from here.
Dropped "the" Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "before the club was demoted", demoted suggests they were penalised in some way. Relegated would be more suitable.
Changed to "relegated" Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Unfortunately the replay was a 0–2 home defeat after another excellent performance against top class opposition", this sentence is an absolute minefield of POV.
dropped the POV "after another excellent performance against top class opposition" Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Linked Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Why is Dragan Lukic accompanied by apostrophes?
Taken the apostrophes away Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "and as so was decided", doesn't quite make sense.
taken away "as so" Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "was not a good sign for Stockport", a little too informal I would say.
Re-worded this but slightly but might need looking at again. Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Linked Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Stockport finishing with 9 men" > finished with nine.
Changed Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Michael Wallace was sent off for spitting at Ted McMinn and Chris Beaumont", add links for these if there are some.
  • "There was trouble in the stands due to the manner of the defeat", this needs elaborating on if you're going to include it.
  • "Stockport reached a 2–2 draw", does reached work here? I'm not so sure.
Changed to "drew"
  • Unlink Edgley Park.
Unlinked Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The last sentence doesn't really work with the semi-colon followed by and. A comma would probably be more suitable.
It is a comma before the reference Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2000–2010

  • "with two late wins helping stave off relegation", source?
found a from County's 2000-01 season page that I will have to archive from Statto so will add this in. Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hartlepool > Hartlepool United.
Changed Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Sammy McIlroy is linked twice in two sentences.
Only one is now linked. Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "However, another relegation followed", starting a paragraph with however is a little odd. Also move the refs the other side of the comma.
Moved comma and removed the word "However" Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The end of the third paragraph needs a source.

Added a few sources for the end of third paragraph Wna247 (talk) 20:19, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • "At the start of the 2007–08 season it was learned that former manager Danny Bergara had died", I'm not sure this is particularly relevant. Bergara was not especially young when he died and he was not in the role at the time. The ref provided does however suggest he was the first foreign manager in the Football League. I would say that's worth including further up.
Will reword the 90's section about Bergara to include this reference. mentioning first foreign manager in the football league. Wna247 (talk) 21:20, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unlink Rochdale.
Unlinked Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The paragraph about GAN on and Brighton only has one source which doesn't support some of the info.
  • "causing Stockport fans to worry that he would be poaching young players in the forthcoming weeks", source? I'm not sure poaching is a neutral term either.
Added more references to this section from multiple sources for both of these points. Let me know if I need to change anything else.Wna247 (talk) 20:19, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2010s: Dark Days

  • The heading style here differs from the rest. Up until now, you've used year rangers but now you have a title. I'd stick with one format.
Taken out titles just kept years. Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unlink the Football League, Gary Ablett, League One and Jim Gannon.
Unlinked Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "but the club's new era got off to a poor start", drop but, it doesn't work with the sentence flow.
Dropped "but" Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "It was widely reported that former manager Jim Gannon would return, after being made redundant in April 2009 by the club's administrators", I thought Gannon had already left for Motherwell?
Correct he did but was sacked from Motherwell in December 2009. In Summer 2010 after the '2015 Group' brough the club out of administration Fans wanted Gannon back in charge. An approach was made but Gannon didn't sign anything as his father passed away so he returned to Ireland. Paul Simpson was installed as manager instead. - I will look for some sources for this. Wna247 (talk) 21:20, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have now added some more references in the main article. Wna247 (talk) 20:19, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Simpson's reign came at a tumultuous for County", something missing here.
Added with word "Time" after "tutmultuous" . If it doesnt work let me know and I will re-phrase.Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unlink League Two and Peter Ward (second mention).
Unlinked Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Gannon's quote seems a little odd here given that he had no link to the club at the time. Is there more context behind it?
Just to explain this a little to you, Jim Gannon was attending Stockports matches as a fan, after a home match in 2011 there was a fans rally and a call for him to be appointed as manager - A week or so later Gannon was appointed as director of football. - see, https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/15732895. I understand in the BBC article there is no mentioned of him attending matches. The Quote is taken directly from the accompanying reference and does mention fans group YTYT (the fans group behind the above mentioned fans rally) but again no mention of him attending matches. Wna247 (talk) 21:20, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have now added some context to this in the main article. If it could be given a once over that would be great. Wna247 (talk) 20:19, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "of the 2011/12 campaign", use an endash for season year ranges.
  • "ahead of the 2012/13 season", same again.
Used endash for the two points above Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are a few instances of refs being included before punctuation, they should be placed after.
Checked all of these for this section there should be no refs before punctuation but let me know if I have missed any Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Summer of 2015" > The summer of 2015.
Changed Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pipe the Morecambe link.
Linked to Morecambe F.C word says Morcambe. Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unlink FA Cup and League Two.
Unlinked Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

2020 – present: Return to National Football

  • Same issue as the previous section with the heading title.
Sorted see previous section note. Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Unlink Gannon and Football League.
Unlinked Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Colours, crests and traditions

  • "making Stockport the only senior club in the UK to wear the Umbro strip in the 2013–14 season", is that notable?
Umbro's HQ is in Cheadle, Stockport. While Umbro were bought out by Nike. Stockport were the only team in the country to have the Umbro logo on their kits during this particular season. It was mentioned at various fans forums and at the kit launch itself that County were the only team to be wearing Umbro that season. Can't find a written source through club website archieves etc. Happy to remove. Wna247 (talk) 21:20, 16 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I was unaware of the locality of the company so, if there's a particular relevance, that's fine. Kosack (talk) 18:44, 19 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Added Umbro as a local company also removed the bit about Stockport soley wearing umbro that season as I couldn't find a written source. Wna247 (talk) 06:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "new Home, Away and Third kit", these don't need capitalising.
Changed to Lower Case Wna247 (talk) 17:37, 17 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Tables should use scope cols and rows, per WP:ACCESS.

Edgeley Park

  • "In 1902 the club required a larger ground", I would suggest starting with "By 1902". I would imagine it was a gradual process, rather than demand suddenly sky rocketing in a single year.
Started paragraph with "By 1902" , if anything in a paragraph needs changing let me know Wna247 (talk) 06:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "1995 saw a new 5,000 seat Cheadle End", a little journalistic perhaps. Tone down to something along the lines of "In 1995, a new 5,000...".
Toned down slightly Wna247 (talk) 06:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "In late 2000 the chairman", mention the chairman by name.
Dropped in the chairman at the time Bredan Elwood's name in this section Wna247 (talk) 06:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No need to link Sale Sharks of Bergara again.
Unlinked Wna247 (talk) 06:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Support

  • "With both Manchester United and Manchester City around 7 miles", located or based around...?
Added with word "located". Its an approximate measurement with Manchester City Centre 7 miles from Stockport, City's Eithad stadium is slightly less than 7 miles while Old Trafford in slightly more with it being in Salford Wna247 (talk) 06:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is only one source in the first paragraph and it doesn't support a lot of the info.
  • "Stockport has had notable defeats from 2000–01 onwards, crowds have continued to be healthy", the two parts of this sentence don't really seem to fit together.
Made a slight tweak to the sentence. Let me know if it needs changing further. Wna247 (talk) 06:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Carlisle > Carlisle United.
Changed Wna247 (talk) 06:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Remove two links to the Football League and one to League Two and Rochdale.
Removed

Supporter's Groups

  • Ref 261 isn't doing a lot directly after the name, I'd move it to the end of the sentence.
Reference moved. Wna247 (talk) 06:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Rivalries

  • Use an endash in season ranges.
Think I have got them all but let me know of any I might have missed. Wna247 (talk) 06:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Pretty much all of the club's linked at the end are already linked previously.
Unlinked Wna247 (talk) 06:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • No source for Burnley and Stoke rivalries?

Hall of Fame

  • No a big deal, but might be worth splitting the list into two columns to reduce page length.
Now 2 columns Wna247 (talk) 06:29, 20 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  • Book sources, like in ref 2, should include the publishing company.
  • Ref 7, BBC > BBC Sport.
  • A source review at FAC will likely question the reliability of footballsite.co.uk. If you can't verify the reliability of the source, it might be worth contemplating replacing it with one you can. Same with 100 Black Britons in ref 12.
  • Refs 12 and 13 need an accessdate.
  • Ref 15 needs filling out, publisher, accessdate etc.
  • Avoid shouting in ref titles, even if the ref uses it, per WP:ALLCAPS.
  • Ref 22 has an available author.
  • That's a run through of the first 20 or so references. You can see the general issues from the points above, so I'll leave it up to you to go through the rest. Before taking it back to FAC, I would ensure all refs are correctly formatted, have all of the available information included (title, publisher, author, date and accessdate) and are sufficiently reliable.

Further comments A few more comments to consider:

  • " is a professional football club in Stockport", are we sure the club is still professional?
  • "the English Football League system", football league doesn't need capitalising in this context as its not referring to the English Football League, merely the pyramid of leagues itself if you see what I mean.
  • Refs are generally only required in the lead if the information is not supported in the main body. At a quick glance, refs 4, 5, 6 and 7 would not be necessary.
  • "Stockport played their first recorded game in October 1884", do we know the opponent and result?
  • "The club decided to promote from within and Andy Kilner was put in charge", might be worth noting what tole Kilnet held before this.
  • "with two late wins helping stave off relegation", source?
  • "Former manager Danny Bergara died at the start of the 2007–08 season", I'm still unsure of the relevance of this given that he had no connection to the club at the time. The following sentence also start with "however", suggesting that the club overcame something in spite of his death which seems misplaced.
  • "During the 2008–09 season, Stockport defied the odds by challenging for a play-off place", source? Kosack (talk) 14:06, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have amended all of these comments now. Except for 1 - " is a professional football club in Stockport" and 4 - "Stockport played their first recorded game in October 1884", do we know the opponent and result? - Firstly, While 3 or 4 players are on part time contracts the rest are on full time contracts. Jim Gannon is on a full time contract along with his assistant. The backroom staff are also full time. The club also trains two days a week during the day and twice a week in the evenings, while using Fridays for match day travel if over night stops are required.The club don't own a training ground and use 3 or 4 different places across stockport for training. The board have never stated that the club is now Full Time again. With Mark Stotts takeover in January it was looking more than likely that the club would turn full time again from the start of next season... whenever next season may be. With point 4 Regarding the 1884 match, Records show the match was against Staylbridge. I have added this in but not wikilinked because it is unclear of the Staylbridge. It wasn't Staylbridge Celtic founded in 1909 but it could have been Staylbridge Rovers who joined the Lancashire Combination in 1890 but their founding date is unclear. Wna247 (talk) 17:09, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Very minor comment by Jonesey95

[edit]

The article is listed in Category:Pages using football kit with incorrect pattern parameters. This appears to be because it is requesting one or more pattern files that do not exist when it attempts to display the kit patterns in the infobox. You might need to ask for help at WP Football. – Jonesey95 (talk) 06:00, 18 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Cannot see the article listed but I have changed the kit patterns. Wna247 (talk) 16:34, 27 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments by Paul W

[edit]

Following an invitation from Wna247, I have done some editing of the article over the past two days, improving the prose in places (often to shorten over-complicated sentences, clarify meanings, turn non-sentences into sentences, etc). Along the way, I have: suggested improving how the article handles multiple citations of the same book but different pages, alphabet-ized the bibliography; checked (only) a few of the citations to ensure they cover the assertions made; added some wikilinks; flagged some assertions without references; and suggested an alternative footnote style.

Inevitably and perhaps unavoidably, there are a lot of citations to the club's website, but also to one or two other sites (notably footballsite.co.uk - which for some reason seems to be down at the mo, so I couldn't assess its reliability).

I have added the page to my watchlist so will keep it under review (nice to have another NW football club to monitor - as well as Crewe, I have done a fair bit of editing on Bury and Macclesfield, among others). Paul W (talk) 19:27, 22 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

As mentioned on your talk page, thanks for your assistance. Just to let you know I have finished off with the referencing - in the citation style you started - of the Books from Freeman & Harnwell and Perry. I do still need to go through the rest of the article to check the references as per Kosack's notes above. Checking Dates, Access dates and capitalisation. I have also made some slight amendments to certain parts of the article after getting clarification, I have added references but may need to check reliability. Mainly these edits have been made Stockport vs German teams, Bert Trautmann 1996. and Stockport at Wembley, Bergara 1992-1994. Wna247 (talk) 00:49, 23 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"Eric Webster managed Stockport on five separate occasions during the 1980s" - really? Webster article says he was manager once, 1982-1985 (was he also caretaker manager a few times?). Clarification needed, I think. Paul W (talk) 20:30, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Looking in Stockport County: A Complete Record, in the managers section it does say that Webster was manager one but he was caretaker in between other managers during his 16 years with the club. He was also assistant to Mike Summerbee and Jimmy McGuigan, then became manager, then was assistant to Les Chapman and Jimmy Melia and Asa Hartford. The book also says that Webster was Head Groundsman at Edgeley park before and after his manager spells. Webster also supported and gave advice when needed to Danny Bergara (upto 1990) - Freeman & Harnwell p. 83-84. Also the link currently - Ref 107 Brennan, Phil - does mention "He had four caretaker spells during the 1980s, as well as holding the position on a permanent basis from 1982-1985" in the linked article. So to me it look like the reference currently used is counting 5 as - 1 managerial stint + 4 are caretaker in between managers as mentioned - similar to how Brown & Conlon (2015) are recognised in the managers box at the bottom of the wiki article even though they managed for 3 games as caretakers at the end of a season. On the official records though its 1 stint as Permanent Manager for Eric Webster. Wna247 (talk) 21:16, 24 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, Wna247. Good to see that point clarified. Whole article looking very good now. Paul W (talk) 13:20, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
"... were unbeaten from New Years Day 1921 to Easter Weekend 1922" - c. 15 months unbeaten: is this correct (or should it be New Years Day 1922)? Paul W (talk) 15:10, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Should be 1922, I have amended it and amended the reference as well. Wna247 (talk) 15:48, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ref amends - reliability of footballsite.co.uk

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Just a question for @Kosack: and @Paul W: It was mentioned earlier in this peer review about the reliability of footballsite.co.uk - while these are still referenced in the article I have added a general reference for Stockport County season by season records, 1891–1994 at the bottom of the page. These pages of the book cover every starting line up, appearances and goals stats, match result and states the final league position (but doesn't show the full table) on a one season one page basis. In places in the Article I have referred to Go Go Go County The website of Stockport County's Historical Advisors This website shows the first team results, appearances and goals stats and full league tables. In your opinions should I change the references - footballsite.co.uk to Go Go Go County The website of Stockport County's Historical Advisors instead and leave the general reference to the book at the bottom of the page? Wna247 (talk) 16:20, 25 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's a question of whether it can be deemed a reliable source. The website is one I'm not familiar with so, if I was doing your source review at FAC, I would ask why you think it's a reliable source and should be trusted. Kosack (talk) 06:18, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I understand, with footballsite.co.uk to be honest I cant find the authors name or where they have sourced their information from. The bottom of their homepage does say "provide information that is comprehensive, interesting and accurate." but again doesn't say where they have sourced their info from. With "Go Go Go County The website of Stockport County's Historical Advisors" I would say this is more reliable than footballsite.co.uk as the information that makes up the site comes directly from the Clubs historians - and I know the length the clubs historians go to, to make sure records etc are correct. One decrepancy I have noted is - footballsite.co.uk mentions that in 1904-05 Stockport County won the Lancashire Combination and were promoted through the voting of the Midland League. Go Go Go County along with Freeman & Harnwell Complete Record book both state that Stockport won the Lancashire Combination and were elected with three other clubs in a second round vote. Go Go Go County shows it was Stockport's reserves that played in the Midland League in 1904-05 and they didn't finish high enough to be eligible for election and I don't think they could be elected anyway as they were reserves. Wna247 (talk) 11:53, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
You seem to have made a very good case with the going for the Historical Advisors as the more reliable source. Paul W (talk) 13:12, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for the this - I will change all references to footballsite.co.uk throughout the whole article when I get round to doing them Wna247 (talk) 13:40, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ref amends - Newspapers

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I have added in links to some newspapers from the British Newspaper Archive. I do intend to add some more however they are missing titles as I'm restricted to what I can see. If anyone has full access and can add the titles for me that would be much appreciated. Wna247 (talk) 13:40, 26 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Scratch this, titles now added Wna247 (talk) 07:12, 28 April 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Copy Edit

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Just to inform you, @Kosack: and @Paul W: I have noticed that this article today has been copy edited by @Twofingered Typist:, If there are any more changes that you think the article needs I now have a bit more time to do them. One thing has been mentioned on my talk page "One thing that may come up during the FAC review is the fact that many statements are supported by more than two citations. Unless a statement is controversial only one reputable source is needed. I wouldn't do anything about it at this point, just a heads up." But if there is anything else let me know and I will do it the same time as going through the article.

A few quick things I do spot:
  • Some of the refs are not in numerical order. For example, the sentence "local search was carried out to locate descendants of the club's founders" is followed by refs 6 and 3, rather than 3 and 6. There at least two instances in the first history section. Worth checking for anymore throughout.
Been through the article and all refs should now be in numerical order as mentioned. Will fix the refs where there is more than two instances in another edit.Wna247 (talk) 22:17, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The capacity of Edgley Park is only mentioned in the infobox, so that will need a ref.
Added a reference to the clubs website - doesn't list the total capacity as one figure but lists capacities for individual stands. Wna247 (talk) 22:17, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Ashworth would manage the team up to the end of the war", this sentence needs a ref.
Added a ref. Wna247 (talk) 22:17, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "played in a home strip (kit)", I would say this clarification is a bit unnecessary and would just use kit instead of strip.
Changed to just say kit. Wna247 (talk) 22:17, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 66 could be moved to the end of the sentence about the Football League record.
Moved ref to end of sentence. Wna247 (talk) 22:17, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Ref 82 is tagged with being self-published, although a quick search shows Brian McColl has several published works on football.
Two references here, the other reference covers the season in question so I'm happy to Remove the Brian McColl book source as its self published.Wna247 (talk) 22:17, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
No removed as its self published and there is another reference for the point anyway. Wna247 (talk) 15:43, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The image of the positions chart will need a source as I don't think it's supported in the text anywhere.
It is kind of supported in the section where it states how many season Stockport have played at a particular level of English football, However I have added a reference to the image caption.Wna247 (talk) 22:17, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • There is a bit of over referencing throughout but one sticks out in particular. Do we need five citations for George Best's brief stint?
Agree, no its probably not neccesary however with the references on George Best all refs give passing mentions of his three matches and not much in the way of details. Will have a look through them and pick out the two most reliable/verifiable. Also will do this with all instances of more than two references. Wna247 (talk) 22:17, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Webster signed Micky Quinn from Wigan Athletic on a free transfer and also received £2,000 from Wigan for the transfer", I'm a little confused by this sentence. Who received the £2,000, Webster or Stockport?
The transfers was Micky Quinn and £2,000 to Stockport. So I believe the club received the money. Thats what it sounds to me like anywhere as printed in the Non-League magazine. (already referenced)

Wna247 (talk) 22:17, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Clarification now added to the article Wna247 (talk) 15:43, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Worth noting in what competition Bergara led the team at Wembley for the first time.
Added competition and slightly re-worded sentence for a bit of clarity. Wna247 (talk) 22:17, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Six refs (133-138) for a single match?
See point on George Best. Will go through the article and check over these.Wna247 (talk) 22:17, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Bosnian-Swiss Darije Kalezić", from the refs I gather he considered himself Bosnian but, given that he was born in Switzerland and seemingly never represented any other country, I don't think we shouldn't be listing him as both.

Changed to Bosian. Wna247 (talk) 22:17, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • There are still a few uses of footballsite.co.uk. Did we get any further on its reliability?
No. Still can't find a publishers name, Other football club articles that are featured articles dont seem to be using the site as a reference. Bury F.C. However does have one reference to footballsite.co.uk and is a good article. But this is the only other place I have seen this particular site used. Probably can be agreed that it can be changed, General reference at the bottom of the Stockport Article (Freeman and Harnwell) covers all league tables and stats, season by season up to the end of the 1994 season. Happy to change the league position references of footballsite.co.uk to The gogogocounty website (Stockport County's historians website) if it is felt that the Freeman and Harnwell book as a general reference doesn't significantly cover the league placings season by season. In terms of footballsite.co.uk refs to things such as points deductions etc. I will look for alternative references if required. Wna247 (talk) 22:17, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I would say this may be pretty much ready for another run at FAC, it's looking in much better shape now. Any further problems brought up would probably be minor enough to be dealt with during a review. The only big things that really stick out is the possible reliability concern over footballsite.co.uk and perhaps some over-referencing in places. Kosack (talk) 05:51, 13 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Kosack: I have now gone through the whole article and have replace footballsite.co.uk references also removed the overlinking. See above for my clarification notes on some of your queries above. Wna247 (talk) 15:43, 15 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think I've got much more to add to this really. It's had several sets of eyes on it now and that's made a real difference. Kosack (talk) 05:59, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
It that case then I will resubmit it for FAC, unsure how to close this Peer Review though Wna247 (talk) 13:14, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Found out how to close Peer Reviews so I will close this no w and nominate the article again.Wna247 (talk) 17:51, 19 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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