Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Featured log/November 2024

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:26, 3 November 2024 (UTC) [1].

---

List of Women's Basketball Academic All-America Team Members of the Year

Nominator(s): TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:45, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

I am nominating this for featured list because of the recent success of Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Football Academic All-America Team Members of the Year/archive2. I think this list is of similar quality and preparedness.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:45, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

Comments

Drive-by accessibility comments

• Tables need row scopes on the "primary" column for each row, which in combination with column scopes lets screen reader software accurately determine and read out the headers for each cell of a data table. Row scopes can be added by adding !scope=row to each primary cell, e.g. | 1987 becomes !scope=row | 1987 (on its own line). If the cell spans multiple rows with a rowspan, then use !scope=rowgroup instead. This is needed for both tables.
  • OK.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:21, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
• Tables need column scopes for all column header cells, which in combination with row scopes lets screen reader software accurately determine and read out the headers for each cell of a data table. Column scopes can be added by adding !scope=col to each header cell, e.g. ! Year becomes !scope=col | Year. If the cell spans multiple columns with a colspan, then use !scope=colgroup instead. This is for the 4-division table.
  • I think this is what you want.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:24, 23 July 2024 (UTC)
• You cannot only use bolding or a background color to indicate something. Use a symbol. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 08:51, 20 July 2024 (UTC)
  • User:MPGuy2824, when I added scope row, why did the second column get bolded?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:29, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

    The header cell needs to be in its own separate line. i.e. move the University winner's name to a new line. This should fix the problem. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 05:58, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

    Thx.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 12:36, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Comments by Alavense

• I think the first sentence could be reworded for clarity - the way it's written, it appears to say that the award is the most outstanding female, which doesn't make sense.
  • I think I have addressed this issue. Not sure.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:51, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
• The districts are as follows: – District 1 (CT, MA, ME, NH, NY, RI, VT), District 2 (DC, DE, KY, MD, NJ, PA, WV), District 3 (NC, TN, VA), District 4 (AL, FL, GA, PR, SC), District 5 (IL, IN, MI, OH), District 6 (AR, IA, LA, MN, MO, MS, MT, ND, SD, WI, WY), – District 7 (CO, ID, KS, NE, NM, NV, OK, TX), District 8 (AK, AZ, CA, HI, OR, UT, WA, Canada). What do the – stand for?
  • I don't think you asked a clear question. Are you asking what the linked abbreviations stand for?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:52, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
    • I don't understand why there are – before districts 1 and 7, TonyTheTiger. Alavense (talk) 06:52, 24 August 2024 (UTC)
      • Not needed. Thx.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 05:43, 26 August 2024 (UTC)
• Men's and women's basketball No need for the capital m.
  • Thx.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:54, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
• Two-time Winners No need for the capital w.
  • This seemed like a proper place to use Title case. Is this against MOS? Happy to change if it is.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:55, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
• I find the captions in the charts confusing. I thing something along these lines would be clearer: Maya Moore (pictured in 2019), the 2010 and 2011 winner
  • OK.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:05, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
• the have been
  • Fixed.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:07, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
• The notes belong in the "Footnotes" section.
  • Fixed.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:08, 23 August 2024 (UTC)
• Note c) doesn't require a full stop.
  • Thx.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:11, 23 August 2024 (UTC)

Those are the things that caught my attention in a first read, TonyTheTiger. Kind regards, Alavense (talk) 10:40, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

I still think that the first sentence is not clear enough. In general, I feel the first paragraph is a bit convoluted, in my opinion. For the tables, wouldn't it be better to use a dagger and background colour instead of just bold. Kind regards, Alavense (talk) 09:08, 27 August 2024 (UTC)

Do you have a suggestion for the first sentence because I am not seeing the confusion.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:27, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

I am trying to determine if the convoluted paragraph was because of two different emphases. I have split the first paragraph. Could you tell me if both halves are convoluted.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:27, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Is there an example of a table that uses the dagger and background color that you suggest. Is this combination in keeping with MOS and accessibility policies?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:29, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Well, the thing is I don't think it complies with MOS as it is, as MPGuy2824 already pointed out. I'd get rid of the bold and include, instead, a symbol and a background colour. You have more information regarding symbols and the legend here: MOS:LEGEND. Besides, this and this could serve you as examples of how it is done, given that they were recently promoted. Kind regards, Alavense (talk) 12:22, 28 August 2024 (UTC)

Pinging to make sure @TonyTheTiger has followed up about this comment. Hey man im josh (talk) 19:45, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

• I'll take a look this weekend.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:01, 14 September 2024 (UTC)
• @MPGuy2824, Hey man im josh, and Alavense:, I have added a symbol and changed to background color from bold text.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 04:27, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

  The symbol should probably go before the reference? I'm not sure. Alavense (talk) 07:07, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

  I have moved the symbol before the ref throughout this set of AAA Member of the Year articles.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:13, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

All in all, I feel the prose on this list should still be worked on, so I am afraid I will not support just yet. Kind regards, Alavense (talk) 08:07, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

• User:Alavense, can you provide any further thoughts/advice on the prose flaws?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 10:11, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

I'm afraid I may not be able to help you here. I feel the text is not as clear as it could be: I've read it multiple times now and it still requires quite a lot of effort to get the gist of it. That's why I'd rather rely on the opinion of others here, so I will not either support or oppose. Kind regards, Alavense (talk) 10:44, 30 September 2024 (UTC)

User:Alavense, There were recent minor tweaks to the prose. I don't know if this takes the prose far enough in the right direction.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 19:13, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

MPGuy2824

• In the four-division era table, you don't need to use all that styling for the header cells. Copy what you've used for the previous table and remove the explicit bolding of the column names.
  • I think I've done what you suggested.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 11:52, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
• "Stanford University has had the most women's basketball Academic All-America honorees (17..." The linked source says they have 18 honorees. Maybe update the number and the date.
  • Thx.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:25, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
• "(1995 before there were separate awards by level)" -Add a comma after 1995.
  • Done.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:26, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
• Replace "&" with "and" everywhere, per MOS:AMP.
  • Thx.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 07:39, 17 September 2024 (UTC)
• "Selected based on excellence in both classroom achievement and athletic competition performance by the College Sports Communicators (CSC, known before the 2022–23 school year as College Sports Information Directors of America, or CoSIDA), the Academic All-America program recognizes combined athletic and academic excellence of the nation's top student-athletes." This is quite a complicated sentence with sub-clauses. See if you can divide it.
  • I have streamlined the sentence.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 06:22, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
• Aliyah Boston's rows sort weirdly (probably due to the flag). Please fix.
  • I got some help at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#Sort irregularity.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 03:14, 19 September 2024 (UTC)
• That's it for now. -MPGuy2824 (talk) 07:56, 14 September 2024 (UTC)

This nomination has been open for over 2 months without any supports, and will be closed soon unless that changes. It looks like MPGuy2824 and Alavense's comments have been addressed, but were not pinged again. --PresN 01:11, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

Support promotion. @PresN: one point: Is it a problem that multiple columns have the same header ("School") in the table? -MPGuy2824 (talk) 06:09, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

It's fine, I think it's clear that they're associated with the previous column. A more specific name could be nice, but I couldn't think of a short one. --PresN 16:52, 25 September 2024 (UTC)

• @Staraction and ChrisTheDude: both supported the prior nomination of this "series" at Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/List of Football Academic All-America Team Members of the Year/archive2. The article from that nomination has greatly benefitted from advice here, which I have used to elevate the whole set of articles. If either of those editors would care to comment here that would be helpful. --TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:39, 26 September 2024 (UTC)

This nomination has been open well past the time it would normally be closed, so in order to move it past the finish line, pinging everyone involved who has not formally closed their review: @Alavense:. Please support/oppose/recuse as appropriate. --PresN 14:12, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

• User:Hey man im josh, you are the only discussant (Other than PresN, who is visiting this page in a seeming administrative role) here who has not really given a verdict. I have one support and one neutral/abstain. In order to have a meaningful close, your opinion is important here. Although your prior commentary here was not substantive, a substantive evaluation is requested.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:30, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

  @TonyTheTiger: I have not given a verdict because I have not made an attempt to evaluate the article. My comments on this nomination were following up with respondents in an effort to push this nomination along. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:53, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

  User talk:Hey man im josh, Care to opine before I have to restart this nom?-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 21:10, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

  Sorry, but I am not interested in reviewing the list at this time. Hey man im josh (talk) 13:38, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

• I am also pinging @Staraction and ChrisTheDude: again for their input.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 14:32, 27 October 2024 (UTC)

Comments

• "chosen from both the College and University Divisions for all twelve Academic All-America teams, including football." - why mention football? Seems a bit random......
  • You are right.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:59, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
• "The Academic All-America program recognizes combined athletic and academic excellence of the nation's top student-athletes. " - you literally just said that in the previous paragraph
  • Thx.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:01, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
• "One of these [singular] is selected as the Academic All-America Team Members [plural]".....?
  • Thx.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:15, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
• also, "twelve sport-by-sport Academic All-American of the year" - should be plural
  • Good catch.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:03, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
• As the tables are sortable, repeat winners should be linked each time, not just the first
  • Thx.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:07, 29 October 2024 (UTC)
• That's what I got -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 13:26, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

  Thx for dropping by. I hope I have addressed your concerns and that you are able to offer an opinion on this candidate.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 16:17, 29 October 2024 (UTC)

• Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:28, 30 October 2024 (UTC)

Source review passed; did my own edits to the text and references because this has been open so long. Promoting. --PresN 22:05, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.

The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:25, 3 November 2024 (UTC) [2].

---

List of Detroit Lions NFL All-Decade Team selections

Nominator(s): Hey man im josh (talk) 19:32, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Another Detroit Lions list, which I hope will be my seventh Detroit Lions featured list. NFL All-Decade Teams are meant to represent the best players in each decade. It's a significant accolade which is weighted fairly heavily when considering a player's candidacy for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. It's based on List of Green Bay Packers NFL All-Decade Team selections, which was promoted on September 10th of this year. Please let me know if there are any issues or concerns and I'll do my best to respond in a timely manner. Thank you in advance to anybody willing to review or provide any feedback! Hey man im josh (talk) 19:32, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Gonzo_fan2007

• The most recent Lions selections were for the 2010s Team: Calvin Johnson and Ndamukong Suh. --> The most recent Lions' selections were Calvin Johnson and Ndamukong Suh as part of the 2010s Team.

Support That's all I got Hey man im josh. Nice work! « Gonzo fan2007 (talk) @ 21:14, 9 October 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the base that I built this on, thanks for taking a look, and thanks for the helpful feedback as always @Gonzo fan2007! Done. Hey man im josh (talk) 15:29, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Comments

• "did change from decade-to-decade" => "did change from decade to decade"
• "TThe most recent Lions' selections" - there's a stray extra T at the start. Also I think "The Lions' most recent selections" would read more naturally
• That's it I think! -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 20:29, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

  Hey @ChrisTheDude, I've made the changes. Thanks so much for looking this over for me! Hey man im josh (talk) 23:35, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

• Support -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 07:24, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

Airship

• The second lead paragraph is pretty chunky; consider splitting it.
• The tenses in this paragraph are slightly confusing, in switching from past to present: (" Each team was selected by the Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee, which is primarily made up of national sportswriters. The Selection Committee is asked...") I would suggest changing the "was selected" to "has been selected" or something similar.
• "to develop the team" I'm not sure "develop" is the right word for a selection from scratch, maybe "construct"?
• Are we sure that "team" should be capitalised e.g. in "2010s Team"?
• "although starting with the 2010s Team" implies that this will become a pattern, but CRYSTALBALL applies.
• "although standard offensive, defensive and special teams positions were always included, the position names, types of positions and the number of positions did change from decade to decade" again the tenses are a bit odd, would suggest changing to "have always been included" and "have changed".
• Mind glossing what the "Pride of the Lions" is?
• If you have Calvin Johnson as the lead image, you might as well have Ndamukong Suh too ({{multiple image}} may be helpful here). ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 12:54, 15 October 2024 (UTC)

  Thanks for the review @AirshipJungleman29!

  • The second lead paragraph is pretty chunky; consider splitting it. – Split, hope that's a good spot.
  • The tenses in this paragraph are slightly confusing, in switching from past to present: (" Each team was selected by the Pro Football Hall of Fame Selection Committee, which is primarily made up of national sportswriters. The Selection Committee is asked...") I would suggest changing the "was selected" to "has been selected" or something similar. – I went with "has been selected", you're right about the tenses there.
  • "to develop the team" I'm not sure "develop" is the right word for a selection from scratch, maybe "construct"? – I like that, done.
  • Are we sure that "team" should be capitalised e.g. in "2010s Team"? – Honestly I'm not. I followed the capitalization used by Gonzo fan2007 on List of Green Bay Packers NFL All-Decade Team selections. I recognize that sometimes a shorter form of a name may maintain capitalization of the full name, but I'm not an expert at when to use this. I've pinged Gonzo in an effort to hear whether they believe it should be and so that we can maintain consistency.
  • "although starting with the 2010s Team" implies that this will become a pattern, but CRYSTALBALL applies. – Good point, I've changed it to just "... whereas the 2010s Team did not make this distinction."
  • "although standard offensive, defensive and special teams positions were always included, the position names, types of positions and the number of positions did change from decade to decade" again the tenses are a bit odd, would suggest changing to "have always been included" and "have changed". – Damn, yeah, you're right. Changed to "While standard offensive, defensive, and special teams positions have always included, the position names, types of positions, and the number of positions have changed from decade to decade".
  • Mind glossing what the "Pride of the Lions" is? – I added ", a permanent display at Ford Field meant to honor the team's greatest players." with a reference, I hope this is concise and informative enough.
  • If you have Calvin Johnson as the lead image, you might as well have Ndamukong Suh too ( may be helpful here – While there were two selections to the recent team, I chose Calvin Johnson because he's been inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame and Pride of the Lions. I'm open to including Suh, but I think by doing so I push the images in the team selections down further than they should be, which then pushes into the see also section for me.

  This was a lot of great feedback, I'm grateful you took the time to provide this review and I hope I've addressed all of your points. Hey man im josh (talk) 15:15, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

  Support on prose. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 15:19, 16 October 2024 (UTC)

Elias

Hey man im elias :) As I said on WP:DISCORD I am volunteering to review this FLC, the first of yours I have reviewed, based primarily on how concise the prose is. In celebration, have a hot dog 🌭

• "in recognition of the 50th anniversary" we can shorten to "to recognize the 50th anniversary"
• "history of the league" -> "league's history"
• "have always included, the position names, types of positions, and the number of positions" what is the first comma supposed to be doing there ?
• "As an example, for the 2010s Team, due to its greatly reduced usage, the fullback position was not included and a new "flex" offensive position was added" that is a mouthful. Perhaps "For example, due to greatly reduced usage, the fullback position was not included for the 2010s team and a new "flex" offensive position was instead added." Or you can split that into two sentences, which arguably would make this more readable
• "and both made" I don't think the "both" is necessary

That's all from me @Hey man im josh. Elias / PSA 🏕️🪐 ^{[please make some noise]} 04:02, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Thank you so much for the review @PSA!

• "in recognition of the 50th anniversary" we can shorten to "to recognize the 50th anniversary" – I'm having difficult explaining why I think the first option is better. It would make it shorter, but I think it flows better with this wording instead.
• "history of the league" -> "league's history" – I chose "history of the league" as the phrasing to better match the target, History of the National Football League.
• "have always included, the position names, types of positions, and the number of positions" what is the first comma supposed to be doing there ? – Well you see the purpose of that comma was to help me realize I missed a word! Changed to "have always been included..." which makes the usage of the comma in that context make more sense.
  • That makes more sense
• "As an example, for the 2010s Team, due to its greatly reduced usage, the fullback position was not included and a new "flex" offensive position was added" that is a mouthful. Perhaps "For example, due to greatly reduced usage, the fullback position was not included for the 2010s team and a new "flex" offensive position was instead added." Or you can split that into two sentences, which arguably would make this more readable – I changed it to "For example, due to its greatly reduced usage, the fullback position was not included for the 2010s team and a new "flex" offensive position was added instead.", hope this is satisfactory.
• "and both made" I don't think the "both" is necessary – Ehhh, I'm iffy on this, how strongly do you feel? I do feel like while it should obviously be inferred that they [both] made the 1950s team, I think it's more clear, direct, and less ambiguous. I'm not married to the phrasing though.
  • My experience is limited to FAC and GAN where I've been acclimated to keeping phrases as concise as possible wherever applicable, which contextualizes my comment. In this case, though, both verbiages are valid, and I want to avoid splitting hairs over what's essentially one word

Let me know your thoughts on the parts I didn't implement. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:17, 18 October 2024 (UTC)

Following up @PSA. Hey man im josh (talk) 14:01, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

Hello @Hey man im josh, and thanks for your patience. I'm still getting into the swing of things with FLC, which may slightly affect the quality of my comments. Your responses were thoughtful and sufficient enough; I won't prod on the ones that were stylistic-preference in retrospect. A support from me Elias / PSA 🏕️🪐 ^{[please make some noise]} 01:03, 23 October 2024 (UTC)

Source review passed; promoting. --PresN 22:05, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

• Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.